Some Terms and My Place in Them

Acceptance (for me)-I believe have a reached the place of acceptance in my relations with my donors.   They are who they are, and I don't need to search any further to figure out who they are.   I am unable to accept a relationship where I am abused, asked to scurry for them, and not have a viable two way relationship.   I would not be able to go beyond a superficial relationship with them anyway, as anything I share finds a way to be used against me.  I am good with letting go of the dream of having a healthy relationship with the people that made me.  It is a dream very long dead anyway.

Acceptance (via the donors)-No they have not accepted that I am an individual with unique views, opinions, and interests.   They have not acceptance that I won't live in repression and lies for their comfort.   As far as the donors are concerned, I have not reached a point where they can accept me IMHO.  

Validation (as it relates to me)-Once upon a time I longed to hear JUST that I was heard (that is after my longing for apology had passed).   It no longer maters to me (see acceptance ).  I have designed my plan of action and gone forward.

Validation (as it relates to my donors)-I am unable to excuse their actions.   I see the words written and said, and I can validate that.    However the actions are in direct conflict with the words.   I can't even believe that my donors feel any real pain of not seeing me, in fact I think it must be quite the reverse, because I will not speak lies and supplicants to them.  I have acknowledged that they fed, clothed, and provided me shelter.   I have also acknowledged that our rift has no connection to how I was brought up, other than there was never a bond there between me and the donors that I could cleave to.   In other words, I can not validate a reason for us remaining in a relationship together as things stand today and have stood for 23 and 14 years.

Apology-From the male donor, I have received the words that "I am sorry" followed immediately by the excuses.   Then followed even more immediately by his public blog post (on this blog) on his grudge that I did not graduate from the first college that I went to (which I had apologized to him a looonnnggg time ago about).  So the words mean nothing to me, it is still clear that male donor feels totally justified in encouraging his current wife to abuse me (physically, verbally, and emotionally).

In 2008 (11 years after the female donor and I estranged, and four years after her lie) the female donor typed the words sorry for lying about how I felt about my grandfather's and step brother's death.   This even coincidentally came after talking to someone she calls SIL that said I felt she was mentally ill, verbally abusive, and emotionally abusive (controlling, narcissistic, and the list goes on).  Course she says now that she really felt that way, but NOW realizes it was a mistake.   And then, right after the sorry came "haven't you ever been wrong?"  I mean yeah I have, but not of stories I have made up to simply hurt a person.   I realize my donors are hurt by the truth, but that is not my problem.   It has been my actual experience of observations of something written in black and white.

So, no, I don't wait around for apologies.   I have given plenty of heartfelt apologies in my life that I did not need to make excuses for NOR need to nullify in the next sentence or discussion (or write "shit happens" as an excuse for harming someone).  I in turn, feel nothing to apologize for now.   I spent much time, years, effort, trying to save these (non) relationships.   My time is better spent in other avenues these days.   These things used to cripple me as a person, and now I am free to be me.

The reason that the male donor wants apologies accepted is simply for the sake of appearance for him and his monster.   It makes him look bad.  My female donor, it is not hard to tell, [did not give any apologies really anyway] wants to live in the illusion of her victim hood and martyrdom.  She certainly wants one so that she can rise again to the realm of the "fictional bestest mother", but she certainly does not want a real relationship with her offspring.   She never did, and that is never going to change.  She wants someone to worship at the alter of her, and if you can't do just that, the hell with you.   I am so over jumping through those hoops, and not being allowed to say "no" ever, and that goes for both of my donors.  Never mind that they can not reciprocate with love, understanding, or anything like that.   Those are the times where it is most all about them.

Forgiveness-Much of the way that I was, have been, and continue to be treated as an adult, I can not forgive.   I want to forgive, I try to forgive, but I do not feel it deep inside me.   I don't know the way there, but I hope I find it some day.   I don't like feeling angry and hurt even if it lessens every year.   My non forgiveness is a burden that has been with me for too long.   Sometimes grief does not officially end either though, and I wonder if that is what I am going through.  Or if there is a definition of forgiveness that I have met.  Like no longer needing an apology or validation from my donors.  Realizing they are what they are, and I had nor have any power to change them.   I think I am thinking of forgiveness as the ability to accept them and their actions.

Defintion of forgive from this site, http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/forgive:

"To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.


To renounce anger or resentment against.

To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example). "

The first one, not ones in my adulthood, I have not.   I have been unable to get rid of anger and resentment fully (it lessens).   However to absolve from payment (ie you are no longer expected nor required to be in my life), that I have achieved.


Grief-I think with acceptance came the larger part of getting over the grief of letting go of a dream.   But grief is always there, I think just less of it and less frequent feelings of it.   I feel it more now for other people just beginning on the journey to dealing with unloving parents.   It's a large burden for a child or adult to carry with them, and I think you always feel that somehow you never measured up, especially if others have or seem to have.

Hate-I am ashamed to say that it is possible that I may hate one or more of these parties.   I wish I could say that it is simply that I hate what they did.   I don't even know that I hate them as I write this, so I will now look up the definition of hate to see if it shines some light on this.To feel hostility or animosity toward.

The below is from this site, http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/hate:


"To detest.

To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes. "

Weird that they used dishes as an object for hate.   I really thought this was a more powerful emotion than this, so yeah, I guess I hate all parties according to the above definition of "dislike or distaste"

And the definition of detest?  http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/detest

"To dislike intensely; abhor."

Well there you go.   That definition fits how I feel about all three parties if that is how "hate" is defined.

***My female donor has written about her intense disliking of me (though she also "adores and loves me" (er not).   And it would certainly not be a revelation or shock to ME that she hated me.  I would submit to my audience that my male donor hates all women and some races of people that include both sexes.  He needs them in his life, but he hates them all the same as far as I can see.   He has a sociopath's love for women as objects that may provide some use to him.   I believe his marriage is based on mutual hate now (and in the past) because one tries to tear down the relations of another (though I don't blame them for the other's actions).   And the other needs someone to be with, but also is no stranger to saying demeaning things about them at family gatherings, and showing anger in the most ridiculous situations.   It is a perfect marriage for the both of them I figure, BUT not one based on true love.   They would need to really know and experience what it is FIRST.  They are incapable of that.

Pity-I do have that and empathy for my donors.   They are living a life that for me would be torture to live.   They can not be authentic in public, they are miserable on a daily basis (maybe not female donor, but her posts do not give me the impression of great joy even on her other blogs), and they feel out of control and angry when they can not control everything.   To keep the relations that they still have, I have to assume that they still need to hide themselves from some of these people.   Two of these people are in deplorable physical condition, and one I heard had to use a walker recently.   Obviously, their physical condition is not my fault and was not so great before we estranged, and is their responsibility.   But it does point out to the fact that emotionally they are not doing so hot.   I don't think this is because of me, and in fact I can only imagine that I improved things in the marriage of a couple of parties.  I think it is because of the way that they are, and how they must relate to others.   I would be quite miserable to if I could not be myself, could not be honest, and had to live behind a mask.  Been there, and done that.  It is no way to go through life.   Of course taking their mask off does not mean unmasking a kind or gentle spirit, and therein lies their problem.  No one would want to be around them without the pretense, free food, and liquor.

S Donor List of What I Can Forgive/What I Can't Forgive

Well here it goes for the S Donor. There were very very few times in my life that I got along with this man. I would say in order of getting along with it was the E Donor, the S Donor, and then the Monster.



Things I can Forgive or Are Not An Issue/What I can't forgive:

1. Getting Divorced/Not Realizing or Caring that Actions during the Marriage were Damaging Me



2. Making the Mistake in Marrying/Not Being There for Me in Formative Years Because Of The Constant Fighting and Conflict NOR ever acknowledging that



3. Marriage Number 2/Allowing the Monster to Be Verbally and Physically Abusive Towards Me (Probably Because You Wanted to Act Out in The Same Way Towards Me, As You Had in The Past, Now You Just Had An Agent)



4. The Monster's Actions After I Moved Out/Condoning, making excuses for, the Monster's actions instead of remaining neutral



5. Disagreeing with Me/Not Allowing Me to Have My Own Opinions or Views (or making it miserable for me when I had them)



6. Asking for Help/Expecting Help as Payment for Having me and Not Taking No as an answer on the few times it was given.
7. Managing your money/Treating Me Like A Line Item in Your Divorce Contract

Monster List of What I Do Forgive and What I Can't Forgive

Oh God, thinking of what I forgive....yipes, this one will be hard. You may see a "/" followed by a non-forgive only on some of these. I will try and dig deep in there:




What I Forgive or Is A Non-Issue/What I Can Not Forgive

• Marrying My S Donor (he picked her, and he has that choice)/Not Making Any Attempt to Really Accept me From the Beginning and Only Seeing Me As a Product of The First Marriage



• Not Being Perfect/Physically and Verbally Assulting Me, and Not Apologizing When Being Obviously In The Wrong Not Only about the Assault but About The Issue Leading to Her Unprovoked Assault and Even if The Dishes Had Been My responsibility That Night, There Was No Justifiable Reason For Her To Awake Me With A Slap (Period)



• Not Being Happy In Her Marriage/Blaming Me for the Failure That SHE Reports Her Marriage to Be



• Being Resentful of My Grandmother/Making No attempt to Be Respectful of My Grandmother as I Was of Her Father



• Not Liking Me As A Person (Not Trying is A Different Issue, But Not Everyone Likes Everyone Else)/Wanting Me To Do Favors For Me While Not Liking ME And As My Payment for Being Born in The First Place (which included the expectation that she would sell my house, and that was a given in her mind)

E Donor List What do I forgive/What I can't forgive

I have been reading If You Had Controlling Parents. If nothing else, it has made me see that many children/adults have lived with what I have lived with. Also that their responses and feelings are similar to mine. I don't know that I identify everything that I experience in adulthood as coming from a controlling parental family. For instance, one thing that rang true to me until I thought about it was "strong reluctance to have children". But then you are equating that with being an abnormal decision, aren't you? I really think that although the thought has crossed my mind that I would not want to misuse my children (had I decided to have any) that has not stopped me from being married or having pets (both things the donors did horribly). So if I had really wanted kids, and liked the idea of it, I would have had kids. I think......





One would think I would have avoided marriage like the plague. I was cautious about pulling the legal trigger, but was never doubtful about the relationship. 20 years later, I think I can say it's been a success , unless I find out hubby has been burying bodies in the basement. He can't afford a mistress so.....





Any who, here is an idea that I got from reading the book. People like to write "forgiveness" letters which is a place I haven't gotten to yet. I mean, it would end up being a sarcastic mean spirited non-forgiveness letter. I've already gone there plenty of times.





So since this is the topic, I thought what do I really NOT forgive. What do I really forgive or was never unforgiven? So let's start with my E Donor:





What Do I Forgive or has been a non-issue/What is not forgiven?

• Affair with X/The fact that it was allowed for my S Donor to update me about the situation after being left with S Donor



• Getting married to X/Not notifying me that she got married to X, and again letting my abusive father do it



• Not Interested in Everything I Do/Not Interested in Anything About Me Unless it Coincides with E Donor Interests and then it's still about her



• Having A Blog About The Estrangement/Posting Blatant Lies on The Blog and Public Boards (ie wanting to have a large wedding, and not caring about my grandfather and step-brother's deaths)



• Letting Me Know I Was A "Mistake" from an Early Age/Expecting Payment in Later Years with Presents



• Wanting a Relationship With Me/Making Me Miserable for Not conforming to Her One Sided Fantasy Relationship With Me



• Wanting to Know What I Was Doing/Belittling and Putting Down What I Was Doing as She Spied (always assuming the negative despite my actual successful life)



• The Intial Issue and Argument Where My Mother Was Requesting the Perfect Gifts While My Husband Was Hospitalized/Harrassment and Draining Drama that Ensued That Diminished my Ability to Enjoy Life

Forgiveness, A Topic That I Haven't Talked About

I guess I would have to first define forgiveness for ME. In professions or different situations, certain words can have a "different" literal definition than the actual one. In the context of my family estrangement, I would have to figure out what that word means, and whether I feel it is possible for me to get there.

"virtue, is forgiving, pardon of a fault, remission of a debt. To forgive means give up, cease to harbor resentment, wrath, to remit a debt, to give up resentment or claim to requital for, pardon an offense." ...miriams-well.org/Glossary/index.html.

I don't think I can cease to harbor resentment. I am pretty sure I can't "pardon" their behavior without an apology OR acknowledgement of my feelings. Perhaps with that.....even then, they would still be who they are. I could probably with those things, stop caring one way or the other, but not resurrect the relationship. I think that is done, but again that is not forgiveness.

Wow, that was a lot simpler than I thought. So conclusion:

The way things are, I will never be able to fogive, or I don't see in the future a way to resolve it and get to forgiveness.

With acknowledgement or apology, I may fogive, but I will frankly not know whether I can or not until that day comes (which is doubtful-----10 years in one instance, two years in another, and 18 years for the monster). I mean an actual apology by the way, not another excuse for their behavior. I have made it clear, there is no excuse.

In any case, forgiveness does not require the resurrection of a relationship. I don't see that happening unless some different souls of goodness possess these bodies. I can't have a relationship with the people that they are. Because there is no tie or bond in the past, there is really no reason (that I can see) to resurrect these relationships, other than to make my self miserable of course. And who in their right mind would seek to do that?