Friday Fishing for Blogs Related to Family Estrangement

Estranged from Ourselves via Cell Phone and Technology

Analysis of Mother and Daughter Estrangements

A Truly Horrible Event and Analysis of Personal Estrangement

Dealing With Family During Family Illness

Review of Movie Dealing With Family Estrangement

Another on Dealing with Family During Family Illness

Thursday Thirteen (13) Holiday Memories of The Past

Here are thirteen memories of family get togethers, when we were getting together:

1. The Irving (on the lip) kisses and my husband trying to avoid them (man, woman or child, you were not safe, especially from uncle D)


2. The monster's friend, Amy's, husband getting trashed and puking in the front yard. I believe they were divorced shortly after.


3. My husband and Kaya discovering a shared interest:)


4. The year that I actually cooked (baked really), and it came out well. I made a date and goat cheese appetizer, and a ginger roll with lemon curd filling.


5. The step snickering at my grandmother when she dropped a crumb on the floor.


6. Finding out that my step nephew, who was coming to dinner, had recently held a knife up to his mother's throat.


7. This same nephew demanding a beer (in earnest) when he was still less than fifteen right in the middle of a family gathering.


8. Excellent sale at the Black Lion, where I got my S Donor a bunch of the glass ornaments that he likes for next to nothing (I do wish I had kept them for myself). On the other hand, much like the color white, me and glass do not mix.


9. During college, a 3 am shopping trip for Christmas Gifts (LOL) at an Ames or something horrible like that.


10. Last year, when my husband put up the Christmas tree and lights for me, because I wasn't quite in the mood.


11. This year, our tenants made our yard a lighted winter wonderland:)


12. The Christmas tree that Grampa kept draped in the basement, and then just "uncovered" (er, I mean decorated) each year. Ingenious really.


13. Playing Uno with my parents during Christmas morning.

Dr Phil Show/Acknowledgements

A recent episode of Dr Phil, which was the second part, dealt with a conflict between a son, his wife to be and now wife, and his mother (her mother-in-law to be and now mother-in-law). I thought this was a good study of the value of acknowledgements, and the harm you can do by not simply acknowledging something. Not apologizing for it necessarily, as this couple stated she always apologized but never changed. But an acknowledgement that it happened, and the acknowledger knows what it is that they did wrong or what bothered the other person (whether it was wrong or not). It was crazy how the mother-in-law started denying things she had admitted to (on tape) in the first episode of this.

Tuesday Ten In Memory of My Grampa

Probably 10 years or so ago, my grandfather died on this day. He meant a lot to me, and here are ten things that I remember about him:

1. He loved national geographic, and we used to watch it together.






2. He kept Captain Crunch cereal under the sink for me as a special treat, and if in season, it came with big fat blueberries on the bottom as a surprise,






3. He used to have to read with a magnifying glass (by the way, I thinkI am headed in that direction).






4. We also watched Lawrence Welk together.






5. In the evenings, we enjoyed a bowl of jello made with canned fruit in it, and cool whip on the top (of course).






6. LOL, he had a CB attena that got higher all the time, and he "created" it himself.






7. He also "created" the clothes drying rack in the backyard for my grandmother out of our old swingset.






8. I spent too many weekends to count with them as a child. They looked forward to those.






9. He used to take out his teeth to horrify us as children. (us=me and my cousins).






10. He used to take me shopping with him at Spags.

Monday Me Me-Four Things That Are Precious to Me

Okay, here is a me me of three things that are precious to me:

• Plastic horse that my grandfather gave me when I was four or so.


• My grandmother's good pearls that were left to me


• My Mother-In-Laws pin that was left to me, which she designed with help from a locket and hat pins.


• My husband's grandmother's diamond that was put in a new setting for me on our 20th anniversary (being together) and 15 years married.

Thanksgiving Continued

We saw the Poop yesterday. Mass produced holiday food, not so good. I know shocking. We did exclaim at how good it was, so Poop would feel good about it. He seemed to enjoy it until the desert, which was the worst part of the meal. I mean, I think the pies were from table talk company.....

However, it was wonderful to see the Poop, and know that he enjoyed a part of his Thanksgiving day with someone. My brother and sister in laws had dropped by with their kids as well. It turns out this isn't the first Thanksgiving the poop had nowhere planned to go with family. So next year, we will have to plan to do something about that.

I always feel so awkard trying to strike up conversation, and the Poop is not that hard to talk to. I am a social misfit most times, and so is the Poop.

Today is our Maine Thanksgiving!!!

Thanksgiving Plan Changes

Thanksgiving has given me an opportunity to do one of my favorite things, be spontaneous!!! Also make someone's holiday a little happier, and now have two Thanksgiving dinners in the bargain!!

My father-in-law normally has Thanksgiving at my sister-in-laws house in MA. We found out the other day that she is going on a trip to Virginia this year, and the Poop had made reservations for one:( at a hotel resturant on Thanksgiving. So last night I suggested to the husband, why don't we see if we can go down. My husband hadn't considered it because I have client's dogs here, BUT they are used to the house and all, and if we are gone for 4 hours, they will be good. Probably they will be sound asleep.

So the husband managed to get his reservation changed to three, and then we let him know. Rob said the Poop cried when he heard. Gave me something to dress up for too.

Thursday Thirteen (13) Things That I am Thankful For

Okay, everyone is probably bored with this, but this is the day of Thanksgiving. So here are thirteen things I am thankful for:

1. For my sense of humor and my husband's sense of humor. How else does anyone get along in life?


2. Being alive and finding out that 40 is not old age. It's not okay, it's not even middle aged. So bite me.
   
3. For another romantic Thanksgiving for Two at the Maine household.


4. For the invention of hipsters. My most comfortable underwear (or boy shorts).
   
   
5. For being born in the USA, as opposed to Middle Eastern countries where I wouldn't have made it past age 6, unfortunately.


6. Having a husband that puts up with me. I don't know who else could.....seriously.
   
7. The invention of chocolate.
   
   
8. Not only the country that I was born into, but also the era. Victorian times or earlier wouldn't have been a time in which I would have flourished. (although I have always pictured myself running around in bloomers. Bottom line, I don't think I would have enjoyed the "actual" getups).
   
9. For all the dogs in my life.
   
10. For finding love early on in life, and not having to look for it now. God, can you imagine the singles scene now? I mean it was bad then, we were just to young to know it. It seemed cool then, now it just seems......awkward.
    
11. The ability to change, grow, and be healthier every day.
    
12. Free services like blogger, youtube, videoegg, et.
    
13. Having access to the technology that I do. (which is also part of number 8, I guess)

****Frig, forgot the most important. My blogging buddies who relate to the topic of family estrangement and all it means. Thanks for your input and support these past two years. It hasn't been easy, but it has been a positive force in my adult life.

Holiday Dysfunctional Games to Consider

Dysfunctional Bingo for Holiday Gatherings

Frig, I can't find anymore. I did find one on a blog the year before last year with a list and everything. I tried to find it, but haven't yet. I will endevour to later.

So now I guess I am going to have to be creative:

1. Betting on how many times (Aunt, Uncle, Brother, Father, Mother, Sister, In Law.... et) a relative does a "well known" dysfunction act. For instance some things in my family that I could include 1) A will question about "what family members do for a living" x number of times or to x number of people at gathering, 2) B wil have this many glasses of wine, 3) C will mention her daughter or sons weight x number of times, 3) D will complain x number of times that relatives don't visit or call often enough, 4) E will offer food to those that are done and insisit well after it's become annoying x number of times 5) will make the stretchy annoyed face, while pretending to not be annoyed x number of times. I haven't thought this out all the way, but the person with the most number of items closest to the answer (without going over) wins. There needs to be a mediator to keep score independently and the players report back. Betting could be for treats or money. Illiciting those responses is allowed (in fact encouraged).
2. Alternate to the above, drinking every time one of these events occurs. It is absolutely crucial to be in a buzzed or inebriated state during dysfunctional family gatherings (unless of course this is a problem for the family member. Then a sugar or caffeine high will do.)
3. Another alternative, a task is assigned to each for each occurance that someone has picked out of a hat. Should be mildly embarrassing and very funny.
4. Have a hat of dysfunctional things that others do, to be picked by participants. Each player will need to do that to the family member that naturally does it, in a format where the other players can see. Penalty for not performing the task is leading family in the singing of Christmas caroles or a solo performance.

Shoot, that's all I got off my cuff. Any comments for additional dysfunctional family fun?

Course I no longer celebrate with the dysfunctional family, as my S Donor and Monster have the holidays at their place. They also actively seek out to try to influence my relatives from not visiting. Not that this works will all or that I am terribly concerned with the ones it does work with .

However, were I going to a gathering, I would definately want something "fun" to do these days that is somewhat creative. Please share any stories.

****Note found my blogging buddy's post on this from last year.

First Snow!!

We had our first snowfall today. Looks like this Thanksgiving is not shaping up to be like the last few Thanksgivings (record high temps, and spring like warm days). We may even have a snowy not only Thanksgiving but, gasp, Christmas as well.

Of course this came on the verge of a plague that was dropped off, when one of my clients picked up their dog. I did manage to get out with the dogs to appreciate a bit of it. Still it is raw, and damp. The snow is turning again to mush from the earth that isn't sufficiently frozen enough yet to retain it in it's frozen state.

Post on Healing From Family Rifts Board-Response about Not Believing You would have come out right if you had love

I had to think about this, because my first response was that there was no need to be sad, as I was talking about it like a lemons making lemonade kind of way. I have been reading "If You Had Controlling Parents", which I did;and it's been comforting to read that my responses were "normal". I just thought I was cool at the time . You know rebelling, being a slightly wild child et. It wasn't until later in my life that I realized that I was trying to escape the only way I knew how.





It took until I was 40 to finally break free!!! That is mind bogglingto me, because I am a pretty bright person.So thinking about that, I do realize that in a lot of ways, although I am also confident with high self esteem in other ways, a lot of those not so subtle messages from my parents did leak through. In fact the thing my mother hated about my husband was "he was too nuturing and loving". Like having that in a relationship was a bad thing. I am also nuturing and loving towards my husband. We are also like a partnership, and we also have seperate interests. We have been married for 20 years now. Happily, without any affairs or seperations or serious disagreements or physical fights......you know a healthy marriage. We are very lucky, and my husband is a wonderful person.





Ironically, my mother was still contacting him after we stopped speaking until I asked my husband to stop taking her calls. He always thought my family was off, but he was also the only one to make an effort to know and spend time with them for me. Then ironically my mother can't find enough faults with him (he got the flu once while we were visiting her, he's too loving, he likes sports), and my father said at breakfast one day that he shouldn't be on my life insurance because he might kill me. (I found out much later that during the divorce, he tried to take out life insurance on my mother and I!!! Wonder what kind of transferance that was YIPES). So that message is basically, you having love is bad. Or you can'tbe loved. You shouldn't want love, safety, comfort et. I can't imagine any truly loving parent giving that message to their child,or wishing them a life devoid of that.





Any way, that statement opened up all those thoughts for me:) I finally also feel like I can stand back and look at them almost like it happened to someone else, but not quite. I wonder if that girl will ever cease to be who I am now? If you know what I mean.





Oh, another thing that struck me from your post and reading the book, it's too bad as kids there was no one to discuss this with or know what was normal. You know when parents used to drag some of us to therapists during divorce and such, it was to "fix" their kids, not find out what was wrong. If I had some kind of resources and a caring professional that was aware of this and what happens, it would have made such a difference. Sadly, finding a good professional out there (especially when the parent is footing the bill, and really doesn't care about you at all) is so difficult.





Even in adulthood, during a particularly difficult time when I was involved as the sexual harrassment officer in a sexual harrassment case at work, it was my primary physician not the therapist that diagnosed me with bipolar (or cyclomania) and came up with the perscription that would help.

Post To Healing From Family Rifts Board-Response to Wedding Day Plans

It's those pesky other people we love who get in the way of a perfectplan isn't it? I was thinking that on my wedding, if I could go back in time, I just wouldn't tell my parents I was getting married at all. Then I remembered the flaw!! My grandparents on my father's side, who I do adore, were alive and would have been horrified that my parents weren't there (with me mainly). So, sigh,going back in time, because I would want my grandparents there AND happy, I would have sucked it up.



It wasn't that bad, except that neither talked, both avoided each other, my mom let me know at every opportuntity that weddings were not happy occaissions for HER, my dad and step were all stiff and didn't show any affection whatsoever. Oh yes, and my mom dragged my dad's side of the family out to see her new classic car, because she knew that would bug my father. But I was enjoying my wedding even so, just ignoring them.



I do understand the problem. What do you say if grandma and grampadon't come to your daughter? What about the telphone calls betweenthe grandparents and the daughter after that day? Are they going to triangulate that to get to you through your daughter?Abusive and controlling parents are not so good at monitoring their actions, or thinking about how their actions affect others.



Regarding T-Day, I think it's fine if your parent(s) don't want tocome. I would start making them accountable for their decisions and actions in accepting their non-acceptance of the invite, and going on merrily with your fun plans for the holiday. It took me a looonnnnnnggg time to figure this out. For instance,for some reason, I used to allow my father to call me on the stepmonster's behalf. Then I figured out, if she wants to talk to me,she can talk to me directly and I started picking up the phone to hear it from her, instead of an attempted mandate by my father. You know, the whole triangulation thing just stopped in it's tracks.



My father tried to reinstate it after she crashed a funeral!! I had called and written her that this was unacceptable, and in the future if she was not invited to something that she was not to attend,especially since it was just so she could storm past me in front of a family that (she didn't realize this) knew the situation and what she was. When I told my father that he had no control over whether I contacted her, but she did. That if she didn't do things that she knew were wrong and hurtful that she wouldn't have to hear directly from me, it all stopped. My father didn't know what to say to that LOL. It was a great moment for me when I realized that the control that they thought they had just vaporized into mist.



I remember another time when my father was calling me right before I terminated the relationship to give me the monster's reasons for believing she had the right to be the real estate agent on the sale of my house. I called her directly and told her she could speak to me, and I didn't appreciate the interference. My dad called back,and I told him I had already discussed it with the monster. You should have heard the rage in his voice, and then I asked "what'swrong with me talking with her directly instead of through you. You claim because your a teacher you are practically a mental health professional, do you feel triangulated conversations are healthy?"Again, he was at a loss for words and said "fine" before he slammed down the phone.



Only you can answer what the cost/benefit is to your relationship.In the end, I finally realized what the relationship was costing me,but it took until I was 40. I thought by complying a few times a year, showing up to the expected events, et and having contact though really not a relationship was sufficient for me. Then I realized their inability not to take no for answer, their uncaring of our relatives who were dying and sick and our needing to concentrate on that rather than their (my father and the step monster) narcistic needs, that I didn't "owe" them the debt of the commission on my house or anything else in a material or financial way. I realized that I am worth something, and people who found me shy and hard to know found that something while my parents never could. They could only find what served them best. I was a list of things that could be done for them. It's so sad, isn't it, that I still need to try and justify to myself why I don't want them in my life. If this was someone else, it would seem so obvious to me. But these are the struggles that we go to, as we come to terms with what this relationship really is, what it's worth is, what it's cost is.Ugh, good luck. Anyway, make your wedding day a happy day regardless. It goes by way to fast:)

Liberating Momements Posted to Family Rifts Board

For me, another significantly liberating day, was the day my father posted on my blog "stop being a victim, shit happens." I got to post back, and I know he read it though he had nothing to respond "I have stopped being a victim the day I let you know my boundaries. I am no longer a victim, but I think you are."


I let him know previous to that a continued relationship with me meant 1) we work on our relationship before we talk or discuss the monster 2) I am never likely to have a relationship with the monster, so deal 3) my father and I will not have an "open" communication to be whatever he wants, unless that communication is earned. He had wanted the topics to suddenly open up to everything, and he has never had that place in my life. Few people do, and those people have earned my trust, love, and respect simply by being nice people that I wish to talk things out with. Just because he got my mother pregnant, does not mean he suddenly has the right to pry in my life, as he used to try to. Or in other words 4) your control of me is over not beginning.


He couldn't agree to any of it. That was one liberating moment, when I realized that someone not able to meet me on these simple facts, isn't worth considering as being part of my life. He had 18 years where I "complied" with his wishes, and he abused that.


The final liberating moment when I was able to say, "no, you don't understand, I stopped being the victim when I stopped catering to you." I am free now, you are not. (if you still feel the need to try and contact me) That was the last time he visited my blog, which is not geared for him anyway, but to discuss this with other people (and there are a frightening amount of people experiencing the worst of this) about this. This board and other people have been very eye opening in that what I experienced/am experiencing is not unusual, just not talked about very openly or at all.


That "programing" not to disagree, not to discuss, to be ashamed of not getting along with your parents (or kids, or siblings, or uncles, aunts et all) no matter their behavior, is so ingrained in us, especially if we came from a family of dysfunction. Anyone who sought to help us, was encouraged to be erased from our life.


Until a conversation with my husband, I didn't even think I had talked to him about all this early on. I don't know how early on, but he had said that he was aware of those things for awhile. In fact, now that I think of it, he was around when I moved in with my father and monster, so it would have been kind of hard for him to be unaware . That happened early on in our relationship, it's amazing he didn't run far away. It's amazing that my parents tried to discount him, while he was always encouraging me to work on (and then not when it became apparent it was not working) my relationship with him, and he tried to help (albeit perhaps a bit misguidedly). See his relationship with his parents is and has been so great, it's really hard for him to have imagined (back then) how awful my relationship was with my parents.
Anywho, just some more thoughts that came to me as a result of this thread. I think these liberating moments are times that freed us up from that place we WERE frozen in or announce a step in walking away from that frozen state. A lot of my procrastination, for instance, is (IMHO) a learned response from the stress in my family. I used to go into my closet with a flashlight (and my stuffed animals) to get away from my family. I find I still use this response of freezing up somewhere with something comforting to deal, and keep trying to change this behavior in myself, but backslide frequently.

Assessment of Family Estrangement

Interesting discussion this week (or last week when I actually wrote this) on the assessment of the cost of family estrangement. This was between a potential daughter in law, and her potential controlling mother in law. Phil asked at the end whether the cost is worth it.


Dr Phil asked the controlling mother if she would accept that her son is going to get married to this woman whether she likes it or not. The mother (and this is where my arrow pointed back to the son) says something like "and I am supposed to accept that he's a totally different person when he's with her?" The the mother goes "is that normal?" Um, yeah that means your son is finding himself and growing up. Now is he doing the right thing? God knows, guess you are going to find out, and he is going to find out. It struck a chord because I have grown up with controlling parents (duh).


So the cost to me for estranging? Well not having a relationship with my parents good, bad or indifferent is a cost. Having to decide how to answer people who inquire whether I have parents, where they are what they do, or if they knew my parents how they are doing. That's not always that easy. The revaluation process that I always put myself through that ultimately ends in disappointment.







All in all, it's been a price worth paying for ME. I can't imagine having estranging from my mother in law, but then again she wasn't objectionable. Don't know whether the mother has really done anything that bad or not. I really felt for the couple when they said they didn't miss the drama. Oh boy, do I know that feeling with my OWN mother, and that could have been a younger me drawing the line in the sand with my parents (you know in different circumstances). I was too young to even consider the possibility (or brainwashed) of telling my parents to bugger off on that day. A few less invitees would have made the day even more perfect.

Thursday Thirteen (13) Places That I Might Visit

Here are places that I might visit, especially if I could be drugged during the flying portion, and excluding those that I already visit regularly:

1. Italy




2. Colorado (skiing baby, not that I am awesome or anything, but I bet they have amazingly long trails)




3. New York City (Carnegie Deli)




4. Disney World, hasn't been a regular visit in a few years now, and until we get our mortgage paid down probably won't be any time soon.




5. Japan




6. England




7. Amsterdam (mostly cause my husband wants to go)




8. Toronto Canada




9. California around San Fransisco but not in the city itself




10. Mount Washington in NH, especially at the Mount Washington Hotel where the outside pool is (heated) and open all year long!! Glass made by Tiffany in ornamental glass, electric istalled by Thomas Edison (as well as sprinkler system). Excellent food in restaurants of surrounding Inns and the hotel itself.




11. A really posh spa and fitness resort where I am massaged into oblivian.




12. Philidelphia, PA




13. Hawaii (again cause the hubby wants to go, it doesn't do that much for me)

S Donor List of What I Can Forgive/What I Can't Forgive

Well here it goes for the S Donor. There were very very few times in my life that I got along with this man. I would say in order of getting along with it was the E Donor, the S Donor, and then the Monster.



Things I can Forgive or Are Not An Issue/What I can't forgive:

1. Getting Divorced/Not Realizing or Caring that Actions during the Marriage were Damaging Me



2. Making the Mistake in Marrying/Not Being There for Me in Formative Years Because Of The Constant Fighting and Conflict NOR ever acknowledging that



3. Marriage Number 2/Allowing the Monster to Be Verbally and Physically Abusive Towards Me (Probably Because You Wanted to Act Out in The Same Way Towards Me, As You Had in The Past, Now You Just Had An Agent)



4. The Monster's Actions After I Moved Out/Condoning, making excuses for, the Monster's actions instead of remaining neutral



5. Disagreeing with Me/Not Allowing Me to Have My Own Opinions or Views (or making it miserable for me when I had them)



6. Asking for Help/Expecting Help as Payment for Having me and Not Taking No as an answer on the few times it was given.
7. Managing your money/Treating Me Like A Line Item in Your Divorce Contract

Monster List of What I Do Forgive and What I Can't Forgive

Oh God, thinking of what I forgive....yipes, this one will be hard. You may see a "/" followed by a non-forgive only on some of these. I will try and dig deep in there:




What I Forgive or Is A Non-Issue/What I Can Not Forgive

• Marrying My S Donor (he picked her, and he has that choice)/Not Making Any Attempt to Really Accept me From the Beginning and Only Seeing Me As a Product of The First Marriage



• Not Being Perfect/Physically and Verbally Assulting Me, and Not Apologizing When Being Obviously In The Wrong Not Only about the Assault but About The Issue Leading to Her Unprovoked Assault and Even if The Dishes Had Been My responsibility That Night, There Was No Justifiable Reason For Her To Awake Me With A Slap (Period)



• Not Being Happy In Her Marriage/Blaming Me for the Failure That SHE Reports Her Marriage to Be



• Being Resentful of My Grandmother/Making No attempt to Be Respectful of My Grandmother as I Was of Her Father



• Not Liking Me As A Person (Not Trying is A Different Issue, But Not Everyone Likes Everyone Else)/Wanting Me To Do Favors For Me While Not Liking ME And As My Payment for Being Born in The First Place (which included the expectation that she would sell my house, and that was a given in her mind)

Monday Me Me

Since this is a family estrangement blog, essentially, I thought it would be good to post what caring parents should know about their kids (and then what caring kids should know about their parents). I don't know that I am such a great candidate for this, but it is something that I think about since I say "my parents don't and never did know me, nor seek to know me". And then, I don't think knowing someone is a series of lists of interests.





That may be part of it, but in reading my E Donor's lists of things she "thinks" she knows about me, she has some of them right. But is that me? I don't think I am "someone who likes classical music" or "someone who likes alternative rock" although both those statements are true. So I am going to try to dig deep, which is hard for me:

• What is it that interests your daughter about music? Answer: The dive, beat and energy of the music. How it matches my mood and whether I can loose myself in it.




• What are the things that your daughter loves about her husband? Answer: His kindness, his unconditional love, his pride in me, his partnership with me, his ability to change as we both change and grow together,




• How does your daughter feel about religion, and does she have a religious affiliation? Answer: Against organized religion for myself, and generally do not think it's a good thing (especially in regard to Roman Catholism). I am Agnostic NOT Athiest.




• What do you think your daughter's favorite memory of you is? Answer for E Donor: The valentine's cake you made with the candy hearts. Answer for the S Donor: My 16th birthday dinner with my best friend Carol and you, and the gift of the tickets to Duran Duran, which I didn't even know that you knew that I liked.




• What is your daughter's biggest disappointment with you? Answer for The E Donor: The disregard and lack of interest in me or my feelings. The expectation of payment for my having been born as a "mistake". Answer for The S Donor: The disregard and lack of interest in me or my feelings. The expectation of payment for my having been born as a "mistake".




• What do you think your daughter thinks your biggest disappointment with her is? Answer for the E Donor: The actual estrangement and my inability to deal with her when she became impossible for me to live with. Answer for the S Donor: Not living up to the reflection that he wanted to see of himself.




• Do you think your daughter is happy now with her current career? Answer: Being self employed is stressful and hard, but I have never been happier in my life re: where I live, my family situation, and my work situation.




• Why was your daughter not happy with her previous career? Answer: Lack of control, and the politics of Corporate America.




• What was the most stressful time in your daughter's adult life? Answer: Going through the sexual harrassment case, when she was the sexual harrassment officer, and going through a bipolar episode at the same time before it was diagnosed.




• What was most hurtful to your daughter in her life as a child? Answer: Lack of interest during the marriage, treatment after the divorce that your love was contigent on the mandates of the divorce contract. This is when it was becoming obvious what a non-entity I was to either of you, despite when you obviously wanted something.




• What would you list as some of the most important days in your daughter's life? Answer: the day she met her husband, the day she married her husband, going through college successfully to graduation, moving out of the parental house, the day I decided to start my own dog training business,




• What are some things that your daughter is most proud of (herself)? graduating with honors from college (cum above 3.5), the A that I got in Japanese Language class despite the fact it was pass/fail and I sucked at languages, my kindness towards the ones I love being people and animals, finally sticking up for myself and seperating from those that only wanted to take from me,




• What are some things that your daughter is dissapointed in herself for? not giving it an honest go at U Lowell while studying music, the short time I smoked and took drugs, being a bit too "exploritory" in college, taking so long to discover what my true relationship was with my parents,

E Donor List What do I forgive/What I can't forgive

I have been reading If You Had Controlling Parents. If nothing else, it has made me see that many children/adults have lived with what I have lived with. Also that their responses and feelings are similar to mine. I don't know that I identify everything that I experience in adulthood as coming from a controlling parental family. For instance, one thing that rang true to me until I thought about it was "strong reluctance to have children". But then you are equating that with being an abnormal decision, aren't you? I really think that although the thought has crossed my mind that I would not want to misuse my children (had I decided to have any) that has not stopped me from being married or having pets (both things the donors did horribly). So if I had really wanted kids, and liked the idea of it, I would have had kids. I think......





One would think I would have avoided marriage like the plague. I was cautious about pulling the legal trigger, but was never doubtful about the relationship. 20 years later, I think I can say it's been a success , unless I find out hubby has been burying bodies in the basement. He can't afford a mistress so.....





Any who, here is an idea that I got from reading the book. People like to write "forgiveness" letters which is a place I haven't gotten to yet. I mean, it would end up being a sarcastic mean spirited non-forgiveness letter. I've already gone there plenty of times.





So since this is the topic, I thought what do I really NOT forgive. What do I really forgive or was never unforgiven? So let's start with my E Donor:





What Do I Forgive or has been a non-issue/What is not forgiven?

• Affair with X/The fact that it was allowed for my S Donor to update me about the situation after being left with S Donor



• Getting married to X/Not notifying me that she got married to X, and again letting my abusive father do it



• Not Interested in Everything I Do/Not Interested in Anything About Me Unless it Coincides with E Donor Interests and then it's still about her



• Having A Blog About The Estrangement/Posting Blatant Lies on The Blog and Public Boards (ie wanting to have a large wedding, and not caring about my grandfather and step-brother's deaths)



• Letting Me Know I Was A "Mistake" from an Early Age/Expecting Payment in Later Years with Presents



• Wanting a Relationship With Me/Making Me Miserable for Not conforming to Her One Sided Fantasy Relationship With Me



• Wanting to Know What I Was Doing/Belittling and Putting Down What I Was Doing as She Spied (always assuming the negative despite my actual successful life)



• The Intial Issue and Argument Where My Mother Was Requesting the Perfect Gifts While My Husband Was Hospitalized/Harrassment and Draining Drama that Ensued That Diminished my Ability to Enjoy Life

Forgiveness, A Topic That I Haven't Talked About

I guess I would have to first define forgiveness for ME. In professions or different situations, certain words can have a "different" literal definition than the actual one. In the context of my family estrangement, I would have to figure out what that word means, and whether I feel it is possible for me to get there.

"virtue, is forgiving, pardon of a fault, remission of a debt. To forgive means give up, cease to harbor resentment, wrath, to remit a debt, to give up resentment or claim to requital for, pardon an offense." ...miriams-well.org/Glossary/index.html.

I don't think I can cease to harbor resentment. I am pretty sure I can't "pardon" their behavior without an apology OR acknowledgement of my feelings. Perhaps with that.....even then, they would still be who they are. I could probably with those things, stop caring one way or the other, but not resurrect the relationship. I think that is done, but again that is not forgiveness.

Wow, that was a lot simpler than I thought. So conclusion:

The way things are, I will never be able to fogive, or I don't see in the future a way to resolve it and get to forgiveness.

With acknowledgement or apology, I may fogive, but I will frankly not know whether I can or not until that day comes (which is doubtful-----10 years in one instance, two years in another, and 18 years for the monster). I mean an actual apology by the way, not another excuse for their behavior. I have made it clear, there is no excuse.

In any case, forgiveness does not require the resurrection of a relationship. I don't see that happening unless some different souls of goodness possess these bodies. I can't have a relationship with the people that they are. Because there is no tie or bond in the past, there is really no reason (that I can see) to resurrect these relationships, other than to make my self miserable of course. And who in their right mind would seek to do that?

Friday Fishing

I find these little assignments, (thursday thirteen, friday fishing, tuesday terror) help with the writers block:) So here we go, other people's misery to follow OR triumphs:

Views of Getting Back In Contact After Many Years

Ego or Justification

Defining Estrangement

A Long Time to Be Dead, Maybe Make Peace? (or reapp what they sow?)

Thursday Thirteen (13) Top 13 Places I Never Want to Visit

Here are thirteen places that I will likely never go (and taking out the info that I hate flying):

1. Mexico



2. Any country in South America



3. Any country in the "Middle East"



4. Isreal is included in the above, but should be mentioned again (luckily my husband went in a safer time, and was able to enjoy the beauty there)



5. Egypt (also pretty much included in number 3, but I would kill to see the places (pyramids, the history et), but another country that is too dangerous.



6. Jamaica, been and the resorts are nice, but I wouldn't bother to go to the country again.



7. The eastern coast of Virginia ----- Yikes. Again, sometime I will have to find my post on the RV trip from hell.



8. Texas



9. Wisconsin



10. New Jersey (drove thru it once from NY city)



11. India



12. France



13. Sweden or Finland (the other side of my family that doesn't interest me too much, unlike Italy)

Trying to Jog the Noggin for Topics on Bloggin

Oh, writers block is coming again for this topic. I don't know whether to be happy, as it means I am getting over it, or sad that I haven't dug deep enough LOL. I don't think there is much else to dig.

They are who they are, and people that are not to be in a relationship with me, frankly. Something that I have had complete control over, by the way.

Probably the more healthy thing for me to do right now, is work on, or consider whether I need to work on things that I consider damaged during my upbringing. Social issues, communication, my not wanting to have telphone conversations with my poor lonely father in law (it's not him per say, I have a dislike of telephone conversations in general----with anyone-----including the husband). I think it's that I feel the pressure of coming up with a topic too much. Probably stemming from the endless conversations that my E Donor tried to have with me, that were all about her, and I would be trying to figure out the best way to get the F off the phone. Also probably due to a job that I loved, but was 90% telephone work in customer service. I haven't been able to stand the ringing of a phone since, even though I did love my job. I don't like talking dog training either on my time off. I have always been good about seperating work from off time.

I am not sure going round and round about how much I dislike these people is healthy anymore. I got a lot of that anger out, although a doll with the face of the monster would be good as an exercise tool for punching. Pretty much, although I have contempt for them, the red hot anger at their callousness is over. Well, at the moment anyway, you know how that goes. A siting, or news could trigger a response all over again.

I do still enjoy the"difficulty" that the real estate tycoon (ie the monster) is having selling HER OWN GODDAMN HOUSE. Though apparently she is going to sell more than her usual four homes this year. She actually had a couple of consecutive months of house sales. So she might get like six this year, after like 15 years of being a "cracker jack" real estate agent. How humiliating, and appropriate:) I do so enjoy that. Plus, as far as computer stuff, she had the wrong area code on her website for years for her direct line (598 instead of 508 LOL) and now her link to her website on realtor.com, she still has as .com instead of her .net. Excellent. Imagine how many other important details she misses in everyday life!!

The best Christmas present this year will be simply if her home is STILL NOT SOLD. I get all warm and tingly just thinking about it.

However, even she is an insignificant piece of my life. I mean, I never did expect much from her, most of my anger comes from giving her a chance for 18 years, where I could have been saying what I wanted to say to her, and not dealing with her bullshit. It was an unfortunate choice on my part, as life is too short for this shit, you know? Especially when the other relationship attached is not worthwhile. The only worthwhile thing that came out of it, was that my grandmother was not upset, and would never know (unless, you know, she can see from beyond) how it would eventually turn out.

The Other Grandparents

My E Donor's parents were real.....um, characters. They were truly selfish uncaring people, although my E Donor was apparently cared enough for that she made it through alive. So they weren't the absolute worst parents in the world by far......and also not the most loving by far.

The fights were not violent in my childhood, as they were in my E Donor's. There was also no alchol abuse in my childhood, as they were in my E Donor's. My grandfather did actually open up his home to them, so they had a place to stay when I was a baby. I hear their parents were worse!!! Something about a cane being broken over one of their kids backs......but I digress.

My E Donor is wondering about whether she knew her mother (my grandmother) or not due to the mental illness. That in fact, she wasn't seeing "her". Where does the mental illness end and the person begin? That is something she is wondering about, and I have answered for myself a long time ago.

She may be mentally ill, but she has been lucid enough in the past, where her actions have been HER ACTIONS. Period. She had the mental capacity to make choices, to know right from wrong,..... For instance, the breaking news of her "suicide" thoughts (which were only manipulation) stopped once I let her know the gig was up....for me. I know I have seen who she is, although I never really had a relationship with her. Or my grandfather. Neither cared to have a relationship, a real one in any event.

It occured to me recently that the "Hershey Bars" that were given to me, which I had mistakenly thought were a token of his love, were in fact just the bulk ones that he bought. (found out from my E Donor's post) They weren't anything ever special purchased for me, as I had mistakenly believed all these years, and the only thing that I had really received from him of an affectionate nature.

Their illness does not make them selfish a$$holes. They did that all themselves by disregarding the feelings of others.

Post on Healing from Family Rifts

This is a post that I put onto the discussion board, where what's being discussed is social disfunction possibly having roots from one's family dysfunction (which I am sure to an extent it does):

I relate a lot with what people are saying, but I don't know that it comes from our circumstances alone. I know people that are happy with their family et, but would not fit into the stereotyped "norms"of social niceties (especially if you really knew them, and didn't superficially know them). And then again, we all kind of have the "skeleton" in the closet that can be pulled out as the reason.

I suppose my family life had something to do with my non-trusting nature, but I think equally were the mean spirited kids in school (pre-college) and the politics of corporate America. I can't tell you how much both those things shaped how I look at the world, but I think they did a lot more than my dysfunctional family did.

I sort of always knew we weren't "right" or "the same" as other families. Even when I was a kid, I wondered if I would be talking to my parents later in life. It just didn't seem plausible that we would EVER really get along. If it weren't for certain physical characteristics that are dead on, I would really question whether Iwas switched at birth or something LOL. There are also some personality similiarities.

I don't deny that the relationship had something to do with it, but a lot of environmental factors outside that relationship did too.AFter all, I pretty much always rebelled against being the way my parents were (and for a while my grandparents too). So they never influenced me growing up or becoming who I wanted to be good or bad.I guess what I am trying to say, is if you switched out my family, the result would have been similar I think. Not sure, but I think so, except I might have had the love and support of my parents. Maybe that lack of drive would have made me a bad person .

It's All I Can Do to Not Post "Cause No One Likes You"

Why are there no comments on this blog? Not mine, but where the link goes to....big surprise!!

Ah the narcissist. Posts on the "serious blogs" just because there are no comments on her blog. The motivation, not to participate in others blogs, but to have others participate in hers as she "gets defensive about the no comments".

Yes Beyatch, it's because you suck and so does your blog.

She doesn't visit here anymore, so I don't have to worry about actually hurting her feelings with this information, and can just fantasize about sending it.

Am I Heartless?

Though I do not talk to the E Donor nor want a relationship with her, I have gotten inspiration on topics from her blog. At the same time, I can't help but feel that I am unfairly picking her apart.

By the same token, you know WTF, she did that to me for my whole young adult life. She is a coward who can't take the same heat that she threw at me. And, let's face it, I have been out of topics really these days. With things going fairly well and all.

She has two new posts up. One is about siblings. I have no siblings. It may have been nice to have siblings, and have some support during my life:) Assuming that is what would happen of course.

My E Donor wonders the same. She muses her fantasy relationship would be great, but reality wouldn't. I think this really demonstrates why it's so hard to get along with her. You need to fit into HER FANTASY relationship.

Robert has different relationships with each of the siblings and loves them all. He is closer to some than he is to others. He is different than all of them, and I would doubt they would fit into some one's "fantasy".

I have a very good marriage however, but it is not a "fantasy marriage". If it was, we would still have our nubile 19 year old bodies, not growing old, and have all the money in the world. The thing is though, WE are responsible for OUR happiness not someone else, not even those closest to us.

My E Donor does not place that responsibility on herself but on others.

In her new post, she talks about me a little , devoid of the lying these days. Why? Because she knows that I check on her blog, ever since I got sick of finding blatant lies like "I didn't care that my grandfather or step brother died" et that were put up after she would get upset with me. Apparently, unlike someone with a real mental illness, she does know the difference, as now that she knows I read (since I called her out on all these things) those lies and fabrications no longer show up, and her writing is much more "generic". That suits me just fine, though I am hoping she will just SHUT THE F UP ALREADY, as she has been doing this for six years now!!! I mean get over it. She writes that she was over my dad (what was to be over? she left him and cheated on him?) in two years, which clearly explains why she was still obsessing over him and his not talking to her 20 years later LOL.

If it were me, by the way, and she has checked my blogs and spied on me for years (which was how I found out about her blog, as she was directing her readers to my family page, when I had one), I would keep writing whatever I want. Why? Because I don't lie and I don't have anything to be ashamed of. Apparently she does, and it's no wonder. She is such a coward in that regard, unable to apologize or tell the truth.

My whole time growing up she was such a "feminist" in her own eyes, but my S Donor "kept her from" doing things???????/ I mean, come on, is that a feminist? How is it that she gets so trapped when no one but herself is making the decisions or taking those actions? Yet any lack of joy or happiness in her life is someone else's fault.

Too funny.

This Story Made Me Sick

What is wrong with some people? This is so lacking in compassion that it's very sick.

http://www.kansascity.com/679/story/341137.html

Thursday Thirteen (13) Noises That Are Annoying to Me

Here are thirteen noises that annoy me:

1. A constant drip drip of anything will eventually wake me up, I will have to seek it out, and shut it off.
2. The blaring of a television at a very loud volume (am convinced hubby needs an earpiece sometimes).
3. The whining of dogs, though I love the dogs themselves, that high pitched whining (which I am paid to make stop LOL) is something else.
4. Loud snoring that comes from my husband's room (hubby claims equally loud snoring comes from my room).
5. Lawn trimming equipment, especially early on a Sunday morning.
6. The sound of a rifle (not this year, but last year there were hunters in the area).
7. Obnoxious kid noises----screaming, shrieking that is non stop, not just the occaisional " fun having" noises.
8. Yelling of other couples or families having loud arguments that you shouldn't be able to hear.
9. The loud sound your computer makes coming on, after you forgot you were tuning out one day to tunes, but now it's the loud canned "microsoft" noise of your computer coming on.
10. (having dogs this is important) the sound of doorbells on &%$# sitcoms. Frasier, one of my favorites, has at least five doorbell incidents in each episode.
11. The sound of sirens in rock music that you listen to in your Mother Fing car. How many times has that gotten you?
12. The sound of glass breaking downstairs, and especially if you have a cleaning person that does not say anything (the days of the cleaning people are over for us by the way LOL---for now). However, there are lots of glass items inherited from my grandmother or my mother in law that I like not being damaged.
13. Children running through my house (which would explain why I never wanted to have any children).