NEW YEARS EVE DAY POST

Here are the first lines of every month from my blog:



January 2007 "Do you know that friction plus panty elastic can create quite a painful welt in your butt?"



February 2007 "I have been in a such a good mood lately, that it's been kind of a struggle to write about this stuff ."



March 2007 "Convenience stores are manned by clerks who don't understand the "convenience" part of the title. "



April 2007 "Our guests yesterday were delightful. Very good time. I am not usually a baby person, but baby Cole was way cute. Leon was especially enamored of him. "



May 2007 "Dear Daughter,Let's start with most recent events first. I should not only have continued to send you holiday cards (or just sent them at all as I usually don't), and additionally should not have ripped up holiday cards from you as they were not addressed to my wife who has behaved in an irrepairable way towards yourself."



June 2007 "Okay this is pretty cool. Computer screen in tables with advanced grabbing techology to be marketed to hotels and restaurants first."



July 2007 "---I went to the Adult Children of Narcistic parents board, and was shocked to find a discussion on parents who use pets against their children. It so parralled my dad's own post to my blog, and my reply that he neglected and killed off OUR pets rather than take care of them, give them to me, or find them an appropriate home!!"



August 2007 "Soon after my last post, the first of some dog trainer guests came over. I have been attending a dog training school run by Margot Woods. It got a bit busy once visitors came and the school got started, needless to say."



September 2007 "Okay, I agreed to give up wine until Halloween, which will probably continue to fit in nicely with my weight goals. And my husband agreed to give up his vice, which I will mysteriously leave out LOL."



October 2007 "So my father-in-law, as I mentioned, is incredibly lonely after the loss of his wife. It's been almost two years now. One of his sons set him up with an internet contact, probably not envisioning what would happen next. He meant to set him up with someone close by, but confused a town in one state, with the same named town in another state hundreds of miles away."



November 2007 "A constant drip drip of anything will eventually wake me up, I will have to seek it out, and shut it off."



December 2007 "Okay, so I have renewed my vow to conquer my fat, so I won't be whining about it next year. Exercise has been a bit of a challenge since, I once again allowed myself to get out of shape. So I need a little motivation, a little pep, that does not come in a candy wrapper or a wine bottle (calories you know)."

Other Zoo Mishaps

After the incident of San Fransisco Zoo's Tatiana, and her subsequent demise, I found an interesting news posting on other zoo mishaps. Even Little Joe in my beloved Franklin Park Zoo has had his moments.

Unfortunately, as everything else, zoos are woefully underfunded. These animals are not meant to socialize with people. Things happen.

Part of the price of taking away habitats and wanting to admire this sort of beauty, is that unfortunately there is a risk. Luckily, there have not been more fatalities than this.

Bhutto Killed In Attack

It's not like this should have been a huge shock. Perhaps, only Bush has is even close to having as big a target on his back. That's probably not right, but I don't follow foreign politics. Probably some other foreign political figures live their lives in constant fear.

Though it should not have been surprising, I still found my head whipping around this morning as the news was announced, and my husband burst out of the bathroom door, where he was just about to take a shower. Somehow, it still came as a shock. Perhaps because we are still in the feel good holiday spirit? Where things like tsunamis and assignations should not happen. Unfortunately, these things do not time themselves appropriately. Benazir's husband has survived, and thankfully their children will still have him, though they have lost their mother. And 18 other people have lost husbands, children, brothers, sisters, wives, et al. Rest in peace to the others that have been lost, but not to our suicide bomber. We all know where we wish he or she would rest.

Bhutto's fears came to an end today. Though it seemed destined to happen, a lot of people were pulling for her. We will now never know if she would have made the difference that we were all hoping for.

Rest in peace, Benazir.

Merry Christmas

We did not go to my cousins last night, as we thought it might snow in the evening. It didn't, and so I am sad that I missed the occaision. If you take my immediate family situation out of the equation, my cousins are pretty fun people. My aunts and uncles are okay, and I am usually happy to see them.

Course S and M would have been there in what is reportably a small house. It would have been interesting to watch them squirm all evening or for M to show her true colors. However, that's really not so Christmas like, so it's probably better that we did not go.

So now it's Christmas morning, and I heard my husband go downstairs to start Chrismas breakfast. Normally we have cinnamon rolls, but I don't think he got those yesterday. Or he was goading me when he was talking about waffles et. (not that I don't love my husband's waffles)

Sunday Secret

I feel weak because I need to take medication for my condition.

Inspired by this site.

Thursday Thirteen (13) Things That Can Cause Family Estrangement

Here are thirteen things that can cause a rift (or the disagreement as to these topics can cause a rift---usually there are other deeper underlying issues that have come to play):

1. Sexual orientation (ie homosexual or heterosexual).




2. Race of friends or spouse, if you family is racist.




3. Money, as in one owes the other money.




4. Inheritance squabbles.




5. One family member no longer wants to be controlled by another or "dance to their tune".




6. Differences or conflicts in religious beliefs.




7. The dramas that happen during a divorce.




8. One's spouse is not welcomed in or is not approved of.




9. Abandonment of a family member (usually a parent leaving the family).




10. Not recognizing children or parents as individual people, but belongings instead.




11. Unforgiven memories of physical, verbal, or sexual abuse.




12. Strong political opinions that differ.




13. Jealousies of status.

***The picture above represents the reason for my split from the monster and S Donor. They felt they had the right to sell MY house. They argued about this during the time my mother in law was dying. I am not putting up with it any more. For two years now since last October, as a matter of fact.

How Holidays Have Changed For Me

Childhood: This is when Christmas meant the most to me. Before the age of 9, my great grandmother, Katherine, was always there. My middle name is for her. I see pictures of me sitting on her lap, and I know I was truly happy then. My poor grandmother, I always tried to squirm away from her, but would willingly snuggle in my great grandmother's lap.

My cousins were always there, and this was like a built in play group, of which I belonged. Normally, Kaya and I hung out and ran along the house running our hands along the newly washed tile walls. Or sneaking to the stockings to see what we could get away with seeing in there.

Also, the great aunts, uncles, third and second cousins, and friends of my grandparents were always so much fun. I also remember spending New Year's Eve with my grandparents, and we would play bingo with them their friends and siblings until the wee hours. I was always made to feel special there, which was so different than my home life.

Young Adulthood: My parents were newly divorced. There was tension as far as where I would spend Christmas or Thanksgiving. I would fly, which I hated, and later drive 8 hours to see her, where she was mostly interested in.....her. Which was fine actually, but we or I were never allowed to relax and be ourselves, like you can be with people who truly love YOU. It was like being on stage and expected to put on a master performance. The gifts had to be wrapped just right, there had to be the right amount of perfection in the gifts, et.

Christmas with my family became dodging bullets for the latest story my S Donor or Monster relayed about me. Having fifteen minutes of conversation with my father, and then getting presents that the monster obviously picked out for me. Always a sweater or purse in a conservative style. Or perhaps a hat. I was always appreciative, but I have recently realized that I have hung onto these things that are not my style, and are now unwelcome reminders of them. Plus, I hate "Christmas Santa" sweaters. I mean, how many times a year can you wear those?

I would be incredibly grumpy before going there, and my husband always pointed this out to me. I hated it so much, except for seeing my cousins.

Around my mid 30s to recently: At some point, the celebration moved to the monster's house. It always felt like a stage production there, especially if you could see behind the scenes. She wanted to be "the great good woman" instead of the monster she was. The thing is while she put on the "show" she resented every moment of it. However it needed to look perfect, and like we were all one happy family. I played along with this for a very long time. I still enjoyed seeing my cousins, but got increasingly grumpier.

I longed for the days where this was at my grandmother's house. She, by the way, was not allowed to the final Christmas with us, as she might get upset going back to the rest home. Then she was gone. The monster would have never put such a stipulation on her father.

After Estrangement: It's been two years estranged from the S Donor. Last year, I was not at all in the mood for the holidays. Not because of missing going to the family gathering, but I was exhausted after being busy in my business, and still exploring how I felt about the players and the estrangement. I was busy making peace with how I felt. Also my mother in law and my dog Netpune had both died around Christmas. So a whole bunch of negative feelings around the holiday prevailed, although I know it's not the holiday's fault. My Jewish husband decorated for Christmas, and held with the things we normally do on OUR Christmas (ie cinnamon buns for breakfast, and Chinese food for dinner on Christmas Eve and leftovers on Christmas).


This year, I am a bit more into it. I am planning a holiday party for local businesses. I put up the decorations this year. I am feeling it again a bit more, and thankful for my marriage and life as always.

Oh The Difference A Few Days On Celexa Makes

Sometimes I forget the pill, and then think "hey, what if this thing is all in my imagination?" I think because secretly I still feel judged. Judged by who? I don't know. Certaintly not the people that love and care about me.

Anyhow, for the benefit of those who sometimes think they may have a problem, here is what I feel when it happens to me. Extreme reluctance to bathe (I am not saying I don't, I am saying getting there and doing that are suddenly a monumental task) Things that I enjoy suddenly spark no excitement or happiness in me. Things that are upsetting will always be upsetting, but this strikes when everything is basically okay. You feel like you are cut off and completely alone. Also without the will to move or do anything productive whatsoever.

I have mentioned that I probably had this at least from Junior High. It's something that I masked easily during those years. However, when you finally really get out of the "funk", there is no mistaking that this is the real you. When you are not the real you, you sorta know it, but don't know how to get there.

Manic Monday Baby---Oh, If Only

I have forgotten to take my meds, so I am far from manic. I actually prefer manic to depressed. My manic normally means "can be very productive", as long as I don't burn myself out in a manic explosion of energy.

Anywho, doing my manic monday anyway:)

Manic Monday for December 17, 2007
What is your idea of a perfect romantic evening?

For one, it follows the perfect romantic day of exploring, or a long hike, or perhaps skiing. It ends at a very comfortable restaurant, with a fire going at this time of the year. The restaurant has excellent food, and an incredible wine list where you can order anything that you want by the glass. And the deserts..... Of course we are all tired from our physical activity, but were able to dress to the nines anyway.

Imagine you had to take part in the winter Olympics. What sport would you do? (Here's a link to the official sports, in case you need help.)

Skiing baby. Or hockey. I had always wanted to play hockey when I was a girl, but my parents made me take figure (yuck) skating instead. Never was there a girl that shouldn't have done anything dance related than me.

What's something that people do in traffic that really bothers you?

Probably yacking on the telephone, instead of paying attention to what is going on.

White Stuff

I forgot that it was going to be a storm today yesterday. I woke up all confused as to what the "white blanket" was outside my window this morning. One window was a wall of white, and the one behind my head looked like it was not snowing at all.

As my dogs, whose bathroom is outside, will attest, IT IS SNOWING. Snowing hard as a matter of fact. It's almost hard for my Dobermans to pee and poop above the snow. We will probably have to shovel out an area for them when it slows a bit. Very good boys and girls today though, they sucked it up and got er done.

Yesterday, I was going to suggest a road trip. Looks like that is out for the day. It seemed like such an inspired idea yesterday, and today I can't even remember what it was. Looks like I am going to be cleaning, decorating, and making Christmas cards today. Also a list for the local business "cookie" party that I will be throwing together.

It's been lovely being able to enjoy December with mostly only my dogs in our house. Oh that's right, going to be doing some indoor training with Jackie today.

Holiday Fishies

Dealing With The Holiday Blues

Spending The Holidays With Those You Enjoy

Family Relations and Their Affects on How You See The Holidays

Actual vs Other Hunger on The Holidays

Like It, Lump It, Or Crump It

Thursday Thirteen (13) Accomplishments this Year

Here are thirteen things I can pat myself on the back on for 2007:

1. My weight may have fluxuated, but it's still LESS than it was last year. It's also still going doooowwwwwnnnnnn.
2. Annoying the Animal Rights Movement known as Truly Dog Friendly (NOT). This helps further keep them from their goals of putting dog trainers out of business that have ANY experience or knowledge for their train from the bed cookie slinging. (I am not talking about positive trainers here, I am talking about the extremists in my profession).
3. Kept our house for one more year, during a very trying time. And it ain't been easy.
4. Came close to making the gross sales goal for 2007, and it could still be done if I got one more board and train this year OR a slew of privates.
5. Have been proactive in marketing my business. Need to get better but I am trying at least.
6. Have come leaps and bounds with Jack this year. He now can do run thrus with me, and has started to finally focus on me instead of what's going on outside the ring (even when we set it up so there IS something going on outside the ring).
7. Have gotten another dog and handler interested in obedience (Ally and Brie).
8. Managed to rehome a dog after his first home was not able to follow thru on training. Rehomed to a proper and responsible home by the way.
9. Did have a 70% increase in gross sales from last year (after COGS-cost of goods sold).
10. Did not sell individual lessons this year, but packages and no apologies on exercises needed to be learned.
11. Have made professional status with the IACP this year, meaning I will be able to start on my CDT exam for 2008!!
12. Continued to flourish and grow despite my familial situation.
13. Kept good mileage records this year, and would have been able to furnish myself with a payroll (no matter how meager) from my business.

Okay, the slidy thing is going down again up top

Whoohooo!!! The slidy thing up top is on it's way down again. It was to 14 last time I was celebrating, and now we are at 5. At least it didn't go up, and I am on board again.

Now for a yummy meat pie lunch from George's bakery where I used to live in Worcester MA. No matter what you think about Worcester, there are real gems there.

Monday is A Bitch Me Me

1. If you had to add a thirteenth month to the year what would you name it?

Feakincolduary

2. In your opinion, what should the Eighth Deadly Sin be?

Ignorance

3. If you were magically transformed into Snow White's Eighth Dwarf, what would your name be? (okay so there is 1) sneezy 2) bashful 3) sleepy 4) grumpy, my husband's name for me 5) dopey 6) Happy 7) Doc)

Hungry!! LOL, especially because I am trying to be good on my diet.

4. If you could add an Eleventh Commandment to the Christian bible, what would it be?

Thou shalt not annoy me

5. If you were to become the sixth Spice Girl, you would call yourself _______ Spice.

Stubborn Spice

Rate Freeze for Five Years Agreement

Click my article header for a link on the agreement reached.

I am sick to death of people bashing others who have found themselves in an unfortunate position from not getting help. I have been unable in my life to count on welfare (decided not to have kids as I couldn't afford to IMHO). My husband is ineligible for unemployment in the highly volatile mortgage industry (he's 100% commissioned, which makes him ineligible). I am self employed and just starting my own business. Before that, I worked for corporate America and watched (and reported on) co-workers embezzling money, and getting "punished" with a letter of recomendation and two years severance. You know, because management was so embarrassed they just wanted it to go away.

I have worked hard. My husband has worked hard. We took a chance and bought this place so I could further realize my dream, and also so we could live where we wanted. We had no inkling, clearly of what was going to happen to my husband's company, and would have been out and refinanced when we did. Unfortunately the news happened too fast, and refinancing has become no longer an option RIGHT NOW. Due to ratios, and what we needed to do to keep our heads above water. The very last thing that we need right now, is to be getting 8000 a year in debt or even building up costs on our loan by refinancing.

Sorry, if there is help out there for us FOR ONCE, we are going to take it.

Hey There Hi There Hoe There

Got a great chuckle as I saw the town.isp address come up. The S Donor was purusing the pages for an hour and a half. He sure does know when to pick the times to read LOL. I wonder if he is now using a step punching bag. Course I mean an actual punching bag not a human.

Yup, it's that time for the "traditions". If everyone is not present, everything must not be alright. As long as everyone is present one day a year (or two or three), well then, relationships must be good, right? WRONG!!!

Merry Christmas, and enjoy it with your chosen family. We are fine, and having a very merry Christmas season.

Thursday Thirteen (13) Santa List

Dear Santa,

Here is a gift list of thirteen things, that I have thoughtfully put together for you to choose from:

1. A pack for Jack when we walk to and from the post office, so he can carry the mail back for me.



2. Those silver Old Navy jeans. Okay, they would probably over emphasize my bottom side so....perhaps in a smaller size then, er, I take currently.



3. An aquamarine tennis bracelet.(or garnet)



4. Hallmark Peanuts Gang Christmas ornaments for this year, and if possible the other years that I missed:(



5. Oh, a couple million dollars of course, to ease our mortgage restructure money woes, and make our future money worry free.



6. A fully paid ski vacation this year!! With lessons from Jose in Stowe.



7. A day at the spa for a facial and massage.



8. Cross country ski equipment, and also equipment for Jack to do that with your dog.



9. A new fleece jacket for Jack or Leon (old one is a little tight for Leon), and the old fleece will probably fit Jack well now that he's filled out a bit.



10. Money for the operation for Leon's knees (only if you can guarantee he comes out of it okay).



11. Personal trainer to kick my ass.



12. A very luxurious make over for our master bath, with the emphasis on a luxury shower (as we did in our last house).



13. Wood flooring for our master bedroom.

The Week I Have Had!!

--My dog Jackie ate the shell of a football toy. This was discovered, when I realized it was missing, and we ripped the house apart sure in the knowledge that he couldn't possibly have wolfed this down. A few tablespoons of peroxide later, the wearabouts of the item became clear as it was vomited out of Jack's mouth.

--This led to an upset tummy, and vomit stains to be cleaned out of the carpets periodically (he did this unfound at night while we were sleeping, poor guy).

--While training Jackie, I left the lights on my Nissan during the 45 minute session. Car was dead, and I decided to walk back to the house, not realizing that on this main York road cars not only go fast, it was approaching night, and THERE IS NO SIDEWALK. I am lucky to have a dog that can heel with me closely so as we both didn't get hit.

--Husband FINALLY got around to getting an inspection sticker on his car, and he needed to get tires. Score, there were two used but like new tires that he could buy for 25.00 a piece. Unfortunately, the mechanic forgot to tighten up the lugnuts. Now we have a damaged car with an inspection sticker on it.

--And of course, the incident that started the whole week off.

Tuesday Ten-Ten Things About

I saw Winn Dixie recently. It was a pretty good film, not the best acted but there was a lot of things I liked about it. Espcially the 10 things she wanted to know about her mother. So if I had a daughter or son, here are 10 things I would tell her/him about their grandmother (my side):

1. She had pretty long brown hair when she was younger.



2. She liked to play softball with friends when I was little. (at least I assume she liked it, later on she had a real hate for sports)



3. She is good at baking and cooking.



4. Angel food cakes were made for me from scratch on my birthday.



5. She started her own antique business at 30 or so.



6. She majored in biology in college and got her masters when I was small.



7. She enjoyed clothes shopping, especially high end clothes at a Worcester store called David Berwicks (I think).



8. Weddings are not among her favorite things.



9. Independent "intellectual" films, plays, and dance are the types of entertainment that she enjoys. (or enjoyed, don't forget I haven't talked to her in 10 years)



10. She felt trapped in her previous life.

Christmas Me Me on a Monday, of Course

I found this at the attached blog site.

1. What is your most enduring Christmas memory?

My Great Grandmother made all us, great grandchildren, these little bears. I always loved that bear, though I somehow lost it in my adult life.

2. Do you have a favourite piece of Christmas music?

Tansiberia Orchestra Christmas Eve Sarejevo (sp?)

3. Do you stick to the old family traditions?

Absolutely not!!! LOL. I like it to remain spontaneous these days, and totally enjoyable. I felt trapped for so long by our family traditions, that put a mask on our relationship in the family.

4. What makes your mouth water at Christmas time!?

Sugar or gingerbread Christmas cookies.

5. How soon do you put the Christmas tree up and when do you take it down?

This year, I chose to display my ornaments by hanging them around the house not on a tree. The tree thing is kind of a pain. There is always something wrong with the Christmas lights (though I still put those up) especially on the prelit trees. A great idea, but they seldom work.

Wondering How the Step Punching Bag Worked for Me?

Fitness Tips for The Disturbed

Okay, so I have renewed my vow to conquer my fat, so I won't be whining about it next year. Exercise has been a bit of a challenge since, I once again allowed myself to get out of shape. So I need a little motivation, a little pep, that does not come in a candy wrapper or a wine bottle (calories you know).

So the next bext thing is? You ask wisely. Why rage and hatred!!! I like Tae Boe, and I now know of only one person that can bring about that physical force, and she once hit me (out of a sound sleep no less, very unsportsman like. Plus I heard that she now complains that I swung back. Damn right Bitch!!) Clearly, it would probably be the wrong thing to stalk her, and then jump out of the bushes and beat the crap out of her, and really not my style anyway. I don't sneak up on helpless people. Ahem.

There is a non violent way, however to get this same affect. I love Tae Boe, and I have a punching bag. When I was in corporate America, I used to picture my poor boss's face on it (he used to "redo" my work incorrectly, causing a panic job for me to correct and explain why Bob just booked negative depreciation. This caused much overtime, overnights, and sleeplessness during my salaried job) Now what I have done is loaded three pictures of my beloved step (they go from overweight to really quite obese, yea) then printed them up in grayscale. Next I will tape these to my Tae Boe bag to get through the first of these sessions, which I will be lucky to do 15 minutes on.

Friday Fishing for Blogs Related to Family Estrangement

Estranged from Ourselves via Cell Phone and Technology

Analysis of Mother and Daughter Estrangements

A Truly Horrible Event and Analysis of Personal Estrangement

Dealing With Family During Family Illness

Review of Movie Dealing With Family Estrangement

Another on Dealing with Family During Family Illness

Thursday Thirteen (13) Holiday Memories of The Past

Here are thirteen memories of family get togethers, when we were getting together:

1. The Irving (on the lip) kisses and my husband trying to avoid them (man, woman or child, you were not safe, especially from uncle D)


2. The monster's friend, Amy's, husband getting trashed and puking in the front yard. I believe they were divorced shortly after.


3. My husband and Kaya discovering a shared interest:)


4. The year that I actually cooked (baked really), and it came out well. I made a date and goat cheese appetizer, and a ginger roll with lemon curd filling.


5. The step snickering at my grandmother when she dropped a crumb on the floor.


6. Finding out that my step nephew, who was coming to dinner, had recently held a knife up to his mother's throat.


7. This same nephew demanding a beer (in earnest) when he was still less than fifteen right in the middle of a family gathering.


8. Excellent sale at the Black Lion, where I got my S Donor a bunch of the glass ornaments that he likes for next to nothing (I do wish I had kept them for myself). On the other hand, much like the color white, me and glass do not mix.


9. During college, a 3 am shopping trip for Christmas Gifts (LOL) at an Ames or something horrible like that.


10. Last year, when my husband put up the Christmas tree and lights for me, because I wasn't quite in the mood.


11. This year, our tenants made our yard a lighted winter wonderland:)


12. The Christmas tree that Grampa kept draped in the basement, and then just "uncovered" (er, I mean decorated) each year. Ingenious really.


13. Playing Uno with my parents during Christmas morning.

Dr Phil Show/Acknowledgements

A recent episode of Dr Phil, which was the second part, dealt with a conflict between a son, his wife to be and now wife, and his mother (her mother-in-law to be and now mother-in-law). I thought this was a good study of the value of acknowledgements, and the harm you can do by not simply acknowledging something. Not apologizing for it necessarily, as this couple stated she always apologized but never changed. But an acknowledgement that it happened, and the acknowledger knows what it is that they did wrong or what bothered the other person (whether it was wrong or not). It was crazy how the mother-in-law started denying things she had admitted to (on tape) in the first episode of this.

Tuesday Ten In Memory of My Grampa

Probably 10 years or so ago, my grandfather died on this day. He meant a lot to me, and here are ten things that I remember about him:

1. He loved national geographic, and we used to watch it together.






2. He kept Captain Crunch cereal under the sink for me as a special treat, and if in season, it came with big fat blueberries on the bottom as a surprise,






3. He used to have to read with a magnifying glass (by the way, I thinkI am headed in that direction).






4. We also watched Lawrence Welk together.






5. In the evenings, we enjoyed a bowl of jello made with canned fruit in it, and cool whip on the top (of course).






6. LOL, he had a CB attena that got higher all the time, and he "created" it himself.






7. He also "created" the clothes drying rack in the backyard for my grandmother out of our old swingset.






8. I spent too many weekends to count with them as a child. They looked forward to those.






9. He used to take out his teeth to horrify us as children. (us=me and my cousins).






10. He used to take me shopping with him at Spags.

Monday Me Me-Four Things That Are Precious to Me

Okay, here is a me me of three things that are precious to me:

• Plastic horse that my grandfather gave me when I was four or so.


• My grandmother's good pearls that were left to me


• My Mother-In-Laws pin that was left to me, which she designed with help from a locket and hat pins.


• My husband's grandmother's diamond that was put in a new setting for me on our 20th anniversary (being together) and 15 years married.

Thanksgiving Continued

We saw the Poop yesterday. Mass produced holiday food, not so good. I know shocking. We did exclaim at how good it was, so Poop would feel good about it. He seemed to enjoy it until the desert, which was the worst part of the meal. I mean, I think the pies were from table talk company.....

However, it was wonderful to see the Poop, and know that he enjoyed a part of his Thanksgiving day with someone. My brother and sister in laws had dropped by with their kids as well. It turns out this isn't the first Thanksgiving the poop had nowhere planned to go with family. So next year, we will have to plan to do something about that.

I always feel so awkard trying to strike up conversation, and the Poop is not that hard to talk to. I am a social misfit most times, and so is the Poop.

Today is our Maine Thanksgiving!!!

Thanksgiving Plan Changes

Thanksgiving has given me an opportunity to do one of my favorite things, be spontaneous!!! Also make someone's holiday a little happier, and now have two Thanksgiving dinners in the bargain!!

My father-in-law normally has Thanksgiving at my sister-in-laws house in MA. We found out the other day that she is going on a trip to Virginia this year, and the Poop had made reservations for one:( at a hotel resturant on Thanksgiving. So last night I suggested to the husband, why don't we see if we can go down. My husband hadn't considered it because I have client's dogs here, BUT they are used to the house and all, and if we are gone for 4 hours, they will be good. Probably they will be sound asleep.

So the husband managed to get his reservation changed to three, and then we let him know. Rob said the Poop cried when he heard. Gave me something to dress up for too.

Thursday Thirteen (13) Things That I am Thankful For

Okay, everyone is probably bored with this, but this is the day of Thanksgiving. So here are thirteen things I am thankful for:

1. For my sense of humor and my husband's sense of humor. How else does anyone get along in life?


2. Being alive and finding out that 40 is not old age. It's not okay, it's not even middle aged. So bite me.
   
3. For another romantic Thanksgiving for Two at the Maine household.


4. For the invention of hipsters. My most comfortable underwear (or boy shorts).
   
   
5. For being born in the USA, as opposed to Middle Eastern countries where I wouldn't have made it past age 6, unfortunately.


6. Having a husband that puts up with me. I don't know who else could.....seriously.
   
7. The invention of chocolate.
   
   
8. Not only the country that I was born into, but also the era. Victorian times or earlier wouldn't have been a time in which I would have flourished. (although I have always pictured myself running around in bloomers. Bottom line, I don't think I would have enjoyed the "actual" getups).
   
9. For all the dogs in my life.
   
10. For finding love early on in life, and not having to look for it now. God, can you imagine the singles scene now? I mean it was bad then, we were just to young to know it. It seemed cool then, now it just seems......awkward.
    
11. The ability to change, grow, and be healthier every day.
    
12. Free services like blogger, youtube, videoegg, et.
    
13. Having access to the technology that I do. (which is also part of number 8, I guess)

****Frig, forgot the most important. My blogging buddies who relate to the topic of family estrangement and all it means. Thanks for your input and support these past two years. It hasn't been easy, but it has been a positive force in my adult life.

Holiday Dysfunctional Games to Consider

Dysfunctional Bingo for Holiday Gatherings

Frig, I can't find anymore. I did find one on a blog the year before last year with a list and everything. I tried to find it, but haven't yet. I will endevour to later.

So now I guess I am going to have to be creative:

1. Betting on how many times (Aunt, Uncle, Brother, Father, Mother, Sister, In Law.... et) a relative does a "well known" dysfunction act. For instance some things in my family that I could include 1) A will question about "what family members do for a living" x number of times or to x number of people at gathering, 2) B wil have this many glasses of wine, 3) C will mention her daughter or sons weight x number of times, 3) D will complain x number of times that relatives don't visit or call often enough, 4) E will offer food to those that are done and insisit well after it's become annoying x number of times 5) will make the stretchy annoyed face, while pretending to not be annoyed x number of times. I haven't thought this out all the way, but the person with the most number of items closest to the answer (without going over) wins. There needs to be a mediator to keep score independently and the players report back. Betting could be for treats or money. Illiciting those responses is allowed (in fact encouraged).
2. Alternate to the above, drinking every time one of these events occurs. It is absolutely crucial to be in a buzzed or inebriated state during dysfunctional family gatherings (unless of course this is a problem for the family member. Then a sugar or caffeine high will do.)
3. Another alternative, a task is assigned to each for each occurance that someone has picked out of a hat. Should be mildly embarrassing and very funny.
4. Have a hat of dysfunctional things that others do, to be picked by participants. Each player will need to do that to the family member that naturally does it, in a format where the other players can see. Penalty for not performing the task is leading family in the singing of Christmas caroles or a solo performance.

Shoot, that's all I got off my cuff. Any comments for additional dysfunctional family fun?

Course I no longer celebrate with the dysfunctional family, as my S Donor and Monster have the holidays at their place. They also actively seek out to try to influence my relatives from not visiting. Not that this works will all or that I am terribly concerned with the ones it does work with .

However, were I going to a gathering, I would definately want something "fun" to do these days that is somewhat creative. Please share any stories.

****Note found my blogging buddy's post on this from last year.

First Snow!!

We had our first snowfall today. Looks like this Thanksgiving is not shaping up to be like the last few Thanksgivings (record high temps, and spring like warm days). We may even have a snowy not only Thanksgiving but, gasp, Christmas as well.

Of course this came on the verge of a plague that was dropped off, when one of my clients picked up their dog. I did manage to get out with the dogs to appreciate a bit of it. Still it is raw, and damp. The snow is turning again to mush from the earth that isn't sufficiently frozen enough yet to retain it in it's frozen state.

Post on Healing From Family Rifts Board-Response about Not Believing You would have come out right if you had love

I had to think about this, because my first response was that there was no need to be sad, as I was talking about it like a lemons making lemonade kind of way. I have been reading "If You Had Controlling Parents", which I did;and it's been comforting to read that my responses were "normal". I just thought I was cool at the time . You know rebelling, being a slightly wild child et. It wasn't until later in my life that I realized that I was trying to escape the only way I knew how.





It took until I was 40 to finally break free!!! That is mind bogglingto me, because I am a pretty bright person.So thinking about that, I do realize that in a lot of ways, although I am also confident with high self esteem in other ways, a lot of those not so subtle messages from my parents did leak through. In fact the thing my mother hated about my husband was "he was too nuturing and loving". Like having that in a relationship was a bad thing. I am also nuturing and loving towards my husband. We are also like a partnership, and we also have seperate interests. We have been married for 20 years now. Happily, without any affairs or seperations or serious disagreements or physical fights......you know a healthy marriage. We are very lucky, and my husband is a wonderful person.





Ironically, my mother was still contacting him after we stopped speaking until I asked my husband to stop taking her calls. He always thought my family was off, but he was also the only one to make an effort to know and spend time with them for me. Then ironically my mother can't find enough faults with him (he got the flu once while we were visiting her, he's too loving, he likes sports), and my father said at breakfast one day that he shouldn't be on my life insurance because he might kill me. (I found out much later that during the divorce, he tried to take out life insurance on my mother and I!!! Wonder what kind of transferance that was YIPES). So that message is basically, you having love is bad. Or you can'tbe loved. You shouldn't want love, safety, comfort et. I can't imagine any truly loving parent giving that message to their child,or wishing them a life devoid of that.





Any way, that statement opened up all those thoughts for me:) I finally also feel like I can stand back and look at them almost like it happened to someone else, but not quite. I wonder if that girl will ever cease to be who I am now? If you know what I mean.





Oh, another thing that struck me from your post and reading the book, it's too bad as kids there was no one to discuss this with or know what was normal. You know when parents used to drag some of us to therapists during divorce and such, it was to "fix" their kids, not find out what was wrong. If I had some kind of resources and a caring professional that was aware of this and what happens, it would have made such a difference. Sadly, finding a good professional out there (especially when the parent is footing the bill, and really doesn't care about you at all) is so difficult.





Even in adulthood, during a particularly difficult time when I was involved as the sexual harrassment officer in a sexual harrassment case at work, it was my primary physician not the therapist that diagnosed me with bipolar (or cyclomania) and came up with the perscription that would help.

Post To Healing From Family Rifts Board-Response to Wedding Day Plans

It's those pesky other people we love who get in the way of a perfectplan isn't it? I was thinking that on my wedding, if I could go back in time, I just wouldn't tell my parents I was getting married at all. Then I remembered the flaw!! My grandparents on my father's side, who I do adore, were alive and would have been horrified that my parents weren't there (with me mainly). So, sigh,going back in time, because I would want my grandparents there AND happy, I would have sucked it up.



It wasn't that bad, except that neither talked, both avoided each other, my mom let me know at every opportuntity that weddings were not happy occaissions for HER, my dad and step were all stiff and didn't show any affection whatsoever. Oh yes, and my mom dragged my dad's side of the family out to see her new classic car, because she knew that would bug my father. But I was enjoying my wedding even so, just ignoring them.



I do understand the problem. What do you say if grandma and grampadon't come to your daughter? What about the telphone calls betweenthe grandparents and the daughter after that day? Are they going to triangulate that to get to you through your daughter?Abusive and controlling parents are not so good at monitoring their actions, or thinking about how their actions affect others.



Regarding T-Day, I think it's fine if your parent(s) don't want tocome. I would start making them accountable for their decisions and actions in accepting their non-acceptance of the invite, and going on merrily with your fun plans for the holiday. It took me a looonnnnnnggg time to figure this out. For instance,for some reason, I used to allow my father to call me on the stepmonster's behalf. Then I figured out, if she wants to talk to me,she can talk to me directly and I started picking up the phone to hear it from her, instead of an attempted mandate by my father. You know, the whole triangulation thing just stopped in it's tracks.



My father tried to reinstate it after she crashed a funeral!! I had called and written her that this was unacceptable, and in the future if she was not invited to something that she was not to attend,especially since it was just so she could storm past me in front of a family that (she didn't realize this) knew the situation and what she was. When I told my father that he had no control over whether I contacted her, but she did. That if she didn't do things that she knew were wrong and hurtful that she wouldn't have to hear directly from me, it all stopped. My father didn't know what to say to that LOL. It was a great moment for me when I realized that the control that they thought they had just vaporized into mist.



I remember another time when my father was calling me right before I terminated the relationship to give me the monster's reasons for believing she had the right to be the real estate agent on the sale of my house. I called her directly and told her she could speak to me, and I didn't appreciate the interference. My dad called back,and I told him I had already discussed it with the monster. You should have heard the rage in his voice, and then I asked "what'swrong with me talking with her directly instead of through you. You claim because your a teacher you are practically a mental health professional, do you feel triangulated conversations are healthy?"Again, he was at a loss for words and said "fine" before he slammed down the phone.



Only you can answer what the cost/benefit is to your relationship.In the end, I finally realized what the relationship was costing me,but it took until I was 40. I thought by complying a few times a year, showing up to the expected events, et and having contact though really not a relationship was sufficient for me. Then I realized their inability not to take no for answer, their uncaring of our relatives who were dying and sick and our needing to concentrate on that rather than their (my father and the step monster) narcistic needs, that I didn't "owe" them the debt of the commission on my house or anything else in a material or financial way. I realized that I am worth something, and people who found me shy and hard to know found that something while my parents never could. They could only find what served them best. I was a list of things that could be done for them. It's so sad, isn't it, that I still need to try and justify to myself why I don't want them in my life. If this was someone else, it would seem so obvious to me. But these are the struggles that we go to, as we come to terms with what this relationship really is, what it's worth is, what it's cost is.Ugh, good luck. Anyway, make your wedding day a happy day regardless. It goes by way to fast:)

Liberating Momements Posted to Family Rifts Board

For me, another significantly liberating day, was the day my father posted on my blog "stop being a victim, shit happens." I got to post back, and I know he read it though he had nothing to respond "I have stopped being a victim the day I let you know my boundaries. I am no longer a victim, but I think you are."


I let him know previous to that a continued relationship with me meant 1) we work on our relationship before we talk or discuss the monster 2) I am never likely to have a relationship with the monster, so deal 3) my father and I will not have an "open" communication to be whatever he wants, unless that communication is earned. He had wanted the topics to suddenly open up to everything, and he has never had that place in my life. Few people do, and those people have earned my trust, love, and respect simply by being nice people that I wish to talk things out with. Just because he got my mother pregnant, does not mean he suddenly has the right to pry in my life, as he used to try to. Or in other words 4) your control of me is over not beginning.


He couldn't agree to any of it. That was one liberating moment, when I realized that someone not able to meet me on these simple facts, isn't worth considering as being part of my life. He had 18 years where I "complied" with his wishes, and he abused that.


The final liberating moment when I was able to say, "no, you don't understand, I stopped being the victim when I stopped catering to you." I am free now, you are not. (if you still feel the need to try and contact me) That was the last time he visited my blog, which is not geared for him anyway, but to discuss this with other people (and there are a frightening amount of people experiencing the worst of this) about this. This board and other people have been very eye opening in that what I experienced/am experiencing is not unusual, just not talked about very openly or at all.


That "programing" not to disagree, not to discuss, to be ashamed of not getting along with your parents (or kids, or siblings, or uncles, aunts et all) no matter their behavior, is so ingrained in us, especially if we came from a family of dysfunction. Anyone who sought to help us, was encouraged to be erased from our life.


Until a conversation with my husband, I didn't even think I had talked to him about all this early on. I don't know how early on, but he had said that he was aware of those things for awhile. In fact, now that I think of it, he was around when I moved in with my father and monster, so it would have been kind of hard for him to be unaware . That happened early on in our relationship, it's amazing he didn't run far away. It's amazing that my parents tried to discount him, while he was always encouraging me to work on (and then not when it became apparent it was not working) my relationship with him, and he tried to help (albeit perhaps a bit misguidedly). See his relationship with his parents is and has been so great, it's really hard for him to have imagined (back then) how awful my relationship was with my parents.
Anywho, just some more thoughts that came to me as a result of this thread. I think these liberating moments are times that freed us up from that place we WERE frozen in or announce a step in walking away from that frozen state. A lot of my procrastination, for instance, is (IMHO) a learned response from the stress in my family. I used to go into my closet with a flashlight (and my stuffed animals) to get away from my family. I find I still use this response of freezing up somewhere with something comforting to deal, and keep trying to change this behavior in myself, but backslide frequently.

Assessment of Family Estrangement

Interesting discussion this week (or last week when I actually wrote this) on the assessment of the cost of family estrangement. This was between a potential daughter in law, and her potential controlling mother in law. Phil asked at the end whether the cost is worth it.


Dr Phil asked the controlling mother if she would accept that her son is going to get married to this woman whether she likes it or not. The mother (and this is where my arrow pointed back to the son) says something like "and I am supposed to accept that he's a totally different person when he's with her?" The the mother goes "is that normal?" Um, yeah that means your son is finding himself and growing up. Now is he doing the right thing? God knows, guess you are going to find out, and he is going to find out. It struck a chord because I have grown up with controlling parents (duh).


So the cost to me for estranging? Well not having a relationship with my parents good, bad or indifferent is a cost. Having to decide how to answer people who inquire whether I have parents, where they are what they do, or if they knew my parents how they are doing. That's not always that easy. The revaluation process that I always put myself through that ultimately ends in disappointment.







All in all, it's been a price worth paying for ME. I can't imagine having estranging from my mother in law, but then again she wasn't objectionable. Don't know whether the mother has really done anything that bad or not. I really felt for the couple when they said they didn't miss the drama. Oh boy, do I know that feeling with my OWN mother, and that could have been a younger me drawing the line in the sand with my parents (you know in different circumstances). I was too young to even consider the possibility (or brainwashed) of telling my parents to bugger off on that day. A few less invitees would have made the day even more perfect.

Thursday Thirteen (13) Places That I Might Visit

Here are places that I might visit, especially if I could be drugged during the flying portion, and excluding those that I already visit regularly:

1. Italy




2. Colorado (skiing baby, not that I am awesome or anything, but I bet they have amazingly long trails)




3. New York City (Carnegie Deli)




4. Disney World, hasn't been a regular visit in a few years now, and until we get our mortgage paid down probably won't be any time soon.




5. Japan




6. England




7. Amsterdam (mostly cause my husband wants to go)




8. Toronto Canada




9. California around San Fransisco but not in the city itself




10. Mount Washington in NH, especially at the Mount Washington Hotel where the outside pool is (heated) and open all year long!! Glass made by Tiffany in ornamental glass, electric istalled by Thomas Edison (as well as sprinkler system). Excellent food in restaurants of surrounding Inns and the hotel itself.




11. A really posh spa and fitness resort where I am massaged into oblivian.




12. Philidelphia, PA




13. Hawaii (again cause the hubby wants to go, it doesn't do that much for me)

S Donor List of What I Can Forgive/What I Can't Forgive

Well here it goes for the S Donor. There were very very few times in my life that I got along with this man. I would say in order of getting along with it was the E Donor, the S Donor, and then the Monster.



Things I can Forgive or Are Not An Issue/What I can't forgive:

1. Getting Divorced/Not Realizing or Caring that Actions during the Marriage were Damaging Me



2. Making the Mistake in Marrying/Not Being There for Me in Formative Years Because Of The Constant Fighting and Conflict NOR ever acknowledging that



3. Marriage Number 2/Allowing the Monster to Be Verbally and Physically Abusive Towards Me (Probably Because You Wanted to Act Out in The Same Way Towards Me, As You Had in The Past, Now You Just Had An Agent)



4. The Monster's Actions After I Moved Out/Condoning, making excuses for, the Monster's actions instead of remaining neutral



5. Disagreeing with Me/Not Allowing Me to Have My Own Opinions or Views (or making it miserable for me when I had them)



6. Asking for Help/Expecting Help as Payment for Having me and Not Taking No as an answer on the few times it was given.
7. Managing your money/Treating Me Like A Line Item in Your Divorce Contract

Monster List of What I Do Forgive and What I Can't Forgive

Oh God, thinking of what I forgive....yipes, this one will be hard. You may see a "/" followed by a non-forgive only on some of these. I will try and dig deep in there:




What I Forgive or Is A Non-Issue/What I Can Not Forgive

• Marrying My S Donor (he picked her, and he has that choice)/Not Making Any Attempt to Really Accept me From the Beginning and Only Seeing Me As a Product of The First Marriage



• Not Being Perfect/Physically and Verbally Assulting Me, and Not Apologizing When Being Obviously In The Wrong Not Only about the Assault but About The Issue Leading to Her Unprovoked Assault and Even if The Dishes Had Been My responsibility That Night, There Was No Justifiable Reason For Her To Awake Me With A Slap (Period)



• Not Being Happy In Her Marriage/Blaming Me for the Failure That SHE Reports Her Marriage to Be



• Being Resentful of My Grandmother/Making No attempt to Be Respectful of My Grandmother as I Was of Her Father



• Not Liking Me As A Person (Not Trying is A Different Issue, But Not Everyone Likes Everyone Else)/Wanting Me To Do Favors For Me While Not Liking ME And As My Payment for Being Born in The First Place (which included the expectation that she would sell my house, and that was a given in her mind)

Monday Me Me

Since this is a family estrangement blog, essentially, I thought it would be good to post what caring parents should know about their kids (and then what caring kids should know about their parents). I don't know that I am such a great candidate for this, but it is something that I think about since I say "my parents don't and never did know me, nor seek to know me". And then, I don't think knowing someone is a series of lists of interests.





That may be part of it, but in reading my E Donor's lists of things she "thinks" she knows about me, she has some of them right. But is that me? I don't think I am "someone who likes classical music" or "someone who likes alternative rock" although both those statements are true. So I am going to try to dig deep, which is hard for me:

• What is it that interests your daughter about music? Answer: The dive, beat and energy of the music. How it matches my mood and whether I can loose myself in it.




• What are the things that your daughter loves about her husband? Answer: His kindness, his unconditional love, his pride in me, his partnership with me, his ability to change as we both change and grow together,




• How does your daughter feel about religion, and does she have a religious affiliation? Answer: Against organized religion for myself, and generally do not think it's a good thing (especially in regard to Roman Catholism). I am Agnostic NOT Athiest.




• What do you think your daughter's favorite memory of you is? Answer for E Donor: The valentine's cake you made with the candy hearts. Answer for the S Donor: My 16th birthday dinner with my best friend Carol and you, and the gift of the tickets to Duran Duran, which I didn't even know that you knew that I liked.




• What is your daughter's biggest disappointment with you? Answer for The E Donor: The disregard and lack of interest in me or my feelings. The expectation of payment for my having been born as a "mistake". Answer for The S Donor: The disregard and lack of interest in me or my feelings. The expectation of payment for my having been born as a "mistake".




• What do you think your daughter thinks your biggest disappointment with her is? Answer for the E Donor: The actual estrangement and my inability to deal with her when she became impossible for me to live with. Answer for the S Donor: Not living up to the reflection that he wanted to see of himself.




• Do you think your daughter is happy now with her current career? Answer: Being self employed is stressful and hard, but I have never been happier in my life re: where I live, my family situation, and my work situation.




• Why was your daughter not happy with her previous career? Answer: Lack of control, and the politics of Corporate America.




• What was the most stressful time in your daughter's adult life? Answer: Going through the sexual harrassment case, when she was the sexual harrassment officer, and going through a bipolar episode at the same time before it was diagnosed.




• What was most hurtful to your daughter in her life as a child? Answer: Lack of interest during the marriage, treatment after the divorce that your love was contigent on the mandates of the divorce contract. This is when it was becoming obvious what a non-entity I was to either of you, despite when you obviously wanted something.




• What would you list as some of the most important days in your daughter's life? Answer: the day she met her husband, the day she married her husband, going through college successfully to graduation, moving out of the parental house, the day I decided to start my own dog training business,




• What are some things that your daughter is most proud of (herself)? graduating with honors from college (cum above 3.5), the A that I got in Japanese Language class despite the fact it was pass/fail and I sucked at languages, my kindness towards the ones I love being people and animals, finally sticking up for myself and seperating from those that only wanted to take from me,




• What are some things that your daughter is dissapointed in herself for? not giving it an honest go at U Lowell while studying music, the short time I smoked and took drugs, being a bit too "exploritory" in college, taking so long to discover what my true relationship was with my parents,

E Donor List What do I forgive/What I can't forgive

I have been reading If You Had Controlling Parents. If nothing else, it has made me see that many children/adults have lived with what I have lived with. Also that their responses and feelings are similar to mine. I don't know that I identify everything that I experience in adulthood as coming from a controlling parental family. For instance, one thing that rang true to me until I thought about it was "strong reluctance to have children". But then you are equating that with being an abnormal decision, aren't you? I really think that although the thought has crossed my mind that I would not want to misuse my children (had I decided to have any) that has not stopped me from being married or having pets (both things the donors did horribly). So if I had really wanted kids, and liked the idea of it, I would have had kids. I think......





One would think I would have avoided marriage like the plague. I was cautious about pulling the legal trigger, but was never doubtful about the relationship. 20 years later, I think I can say it's been a success , unless I find out hubby has been burying bodies in the basement. He can't afford a mistress so.....





Any who, here is an idea that I got from reading the book. People like to write "forgiveness" letters which is a place I haven't gotten to yet. I mean, it would end up being a sarcastic mean spirited non-forgiveness letter. I've already gone there plenty of times.





So since this is the topic, I thought what do I really NOT forgive. What do I really forgive or was never unforgiven? So let's start with my E Donor:





What Do I Forgive or has been a non-issue/What is not forgiven?

• Affair with X/The fact that it was allowed for my S Donor to update me about the situation after being left with S Donor



• Getting married to X/Not notifying me that she got married to X, and again letting my abusive father do it



• Not Interested in Everything I Do/Not Interested in Anything About Me Unless it Coincides with E Donor Interests and then it's still about her



• Having A Blog About The Estrangement/Posting Blatant Lies on The Blog and Public Boards (ie wanting to have a large wedding, and not caring about my grandfather and step-brother's deaths)



• Letting Me Know I Was A "Mistake" from an Early Age/Expecting Payment in Later Years with Presents



• Wanting a Relationship With Me/Making Me Miserable for Not conforming to Her One Sided Fantasy Relationship With Me



• Wanting to Know What I Was Doing/Belittling and Putting Down What I Was Doing as She Spied (always assuming the negative despite my actual successful life)



• The Intial Issue and Argument Where My Mother Was Requesting the Perfect Gifts While My Husband Was Hospitalized/Harrassment and Draining Drama that Ensued That Diminished my Ability to Enjoy Life

Forgiveness, A Topic That I Haven't Talked About

I guess I would have to first define forgiveness for ME. In professions or different situations, certain words can have a "different" literal definition than the actual one. In the context of my family estrangement, I would have to figure out what that word means, and whether I feel it is possible for me to get there.

"virtue, is forgiving, pardon of a fault, remission of a debt. To forgive means give up, cease to harbor resentment, wrath, to remit a debt, to give up resentment or claim to requital for, pardon an offense." ...miriams-well.org/Glossary/index.html.

I don't think I can cease to harbor resentment. I am pretty sure I can't "pardon" their behavior without an apology OR acknowledgement of my feelings. Perhaps with that.....even then, they would still be who they are. I could probably with those things, stop caring one way or the other, but not resurrect the relationship. I think that is done, but again that is not forgiveness.

Wow, that was a lot simpler than I thought. So conclusion:

The way things are, I will never be able to fogive, or I don't see in the future a way to resolve it and get to forgiveness.

With acknowledgement or apology, I may fogive, but I will frankly not know whether I can or not until that day comes (which is doubtful-----10 years in one instance, two years in another, and 18 years for the monster). I mean an actual apology by the way, not another excuse for their behavior. I have made it clear, there is no excuse.

In any case, forgiveness does not require the resurrection of a relationship. I don't see that happening unless some different souls of goodness possess these bodies. I can't have a relationship with the people that they are. Because there is no tie or bond in the past, there is really no reason (that I can see) to resurrect these relationships, other than to make my self miserable of course. And who in their right mind would seek to do that?